Comments on: Discussing Everyday Justice 4

By: John Munzer

John Munzer — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 06:14:35 +0000

I agree with what you say about guilt. Guilt doesn't change behavior (at least, not for long); but changing behavior relieves guilt. Take it from a Behavior Specialist, it's true.

By: Maria

Maria — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:02:08 +0000

It strikes me that the notion of excusing our behavior because it's the culture — the air we breathe– and we can't do anything about it is the worst form of moral relativism. How ironic that people who would argue til they're blue that there are moral absolutes on the individual level will turn a blind eye to the way those absolutes are broken on the corporate or cultural level.

I think one of the problems is that we lack the moral imagination to see alternative possibilities. The way we live is normal, and we can't quite see how it could be different, so the defenses go up when someone calls our normal "unjust." I think that's where we really need prophetic people to make us aware of the truth, even hard truths about ourselves and our culture, to help us imagine a life that is more just, more in line with the Kingdom.

By: Dave H

Dave H — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:42:35 +0000

Mike – great response, I agree completely that some people make an art of avoidance that becomes an abdication of responsibility.

It's hard to find language for what I'm talking about. I chose the phrase "guilty feelings" but that may not be the best rhetoric.

I'll refer again to my community's recent conversations about racism and racial justice, because I don't want to be too abstract. During dialogue, when feelings of "guilt" are raised, my African American friends have essentially said, "Nobody wants or needs your guilt, let's instead talk about cooperative action."

I think the issue is that spending time on guilty feelings is all about the guilty person, rather than addressing the pressing circumstances of people experiencing injustice. Certainly compassion and reflexivity should lead us to recognition (and confession!) of the reality of complicity and guilt. But I read Julie's post as a caution that it's easy to get bogged down there and not move on toward active peace-building and justice.

A friend once said to me, "Yes, Dave, you're racist. Accept it, get over it, and move on!" This was advice that freed me to move beyond focusing on myself and into a place where I could begin to listen to the voices of others and work for a better world.

I really value the discussions on this blog. Thanks everyone!

By: K. Plescher

K. Plescher — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:27:48 +0000

Love this post! I couldn't agree more, and it applies to so much of our lives. My daughter recently learned in church: Wisdom is learning what is right and then doing it. It makes attaining wisdom an action verb, which is a lot harder to come by than simply hearing someone's words and doing nothing about it. I completely agree about your thougts on truth, which also can have a broader perspective. Many people are accustomed to making truth fit into their own reality, instead of changing their reality in response to learning the truth. Like you said, we often make excuses for our behavior as a way to justify ourselves before others and ultimately God. We don't want to believe that we are actually wrong about something because we cannot see how our immediate actions are considered wrong. Societal sin? What the heck is that? LOL Well, Jesus had a lot to say about it, and so does the Old Testament. Yet, Christians today are incredibly individualistic and "me" oriented. To the point that when anyone presents the truth of something to them, they immediately begin the excuses and blaming. They turn on the one presenting the truth by saying they are judgmental or legalistic. It's all about personal conviction anymore, not even a personal relationship with God. One response to me recently was, "It's not like I am going to hell for it. I am strong in my faith, and this won't affect my relationship with God." Not a personal motto I would want to live by, but hey…who am I to judge?

By: Mike Clawson

Mike Clawson — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:18:15 +0000

This is an issue that deserves some deep consideration. Grace is a good thing, and yes, some churches have leaned too heavily on the guilt and condemnation side of things, but on the other hand, at what point does an emphasis on grace and an aversion to guilt become an avoidance tactic used by an oppressor society to not have to face those hurt by their systemic sins or do anything to change their destructive patterns? I wonder if any theologians have written anything about this phenomenon (liberation or feminist theologians maybe)?

By: Dave H

Dave H — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:31:38 +0000

Thanks for another insightful and provocative post Julie. I strongly agree with what you say about guilty feelings.

My institution (I work at a Christian college) is currently conversing about issues of race. The whole thing goes off the rails as soon as white people start feeling guilty. That doesn't help anybody, and doesn't produce much of value.