Entering the Emerging Conversation
On the way back from New Mexico in an attempt to stay awake while driving through west Texas and have something less insanity inducing to listen to than the "I'm a Map" song from Emma's endless Dora viewings, we caught up on old episodes of The Nick & Josh Podcast. Always amusing and insightful, it was fun to listen to the development of emergent thought over the past few years through their interviews. At the start of their interview with Spencer Burke, they mentioned how for them The Ooze was their entry into the emerging world.
For many of us emergent early-adapters, a clandestine copy of A New Kind of Christian and a membership at The Ooze were our entry points into the conversation. I had studied postmodern philosophy in college, and so had an affinity to those conceptions of truth, but understood little about how to integrate that with my faith. Desperate to know that we weren't the only crazy ones out there (a oft-repeated phrase) Mike and I sought out others asking the same questions as ourselves. At one point we sent out a call on The Ooze and on the Emergent Village boards for any Chicago area seekers who wanted to talk. We found two people and decided to get together at a local Borders. As if on a blind date we all (totally unplanned) showed up carrying copies of McLaren books. From that initial meeting, grew the western up/rooted cohort which now has hundreds on its email list. But at the time we just wanted others to talk to.
So that's why for a time The Ooze played such a major role in my life. The message boards were my community. Few others physically around me were asking emergingish questions, so I needed the friendships and the possibilities of The Ooze as my outlet. Back then I went online as MaraJade (of kick-butt Jedi fame) and I logged on and commented as often as possible (I regret though never making it to "Ephod Wearer" status). Tracing my comments there would probably be the best record (pre-blog) of the evolution and awakening of my thought. But there reached a point where that community no longer fit. I got tired of being ripped apart by the Reformed and Orthodox mafias. I hated always having to defend basic emerging assumptions and never moving forward in the discussions. It was no longer a safe or healthy place for me to grow (although I do visit the boards from time to time).
And so I moved past my entry points. I recently received copies of the new editions of McLaren's A New Kind of Christian series. I haven't reread them yet, but I wonder how differently I would view them now. Back in 2002 I disagreed with a lot in the books, now I wonder if I would wish he pushed things further in the text. But that's all part of growing and developing over time. Those were my entry points, but I couldn't remain in those places.
So I wonder what the entry points are these days? Are the message boards at The Ooze still attracting the curious? Do McLaren books still open the door to seekers? Or is it discussions of justice issues and radical living? Questions about church structure and missional living? Discussions over at Jesus Creed?
I'm curious – what brought you to the conversation initially? What are the entry points these days?
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julieclawson(at)gmail(dot)com 
My entry into the conversation started in 2005:
Blue Like Jazz
Velvet Elvis
The Secret Message of Jesus
emergentvillage.com
emergentcentralohio.blogspot.com
in that order.
just found your blog via sojo, and have to say i'm glad i did! i grew up in austin, went to seminary at TEDS (met my husband there), am committed to social justice and find my husband and myself often asking if we are a rare breed of humans or if there are others out there (we know there are; it just doesn't feel that way sometimes).
So, when I'm not hosting a group of people in 2 hours for dinner (that's on the stove) and my couch isn't covered in clean laundry and I still need to get a run in, I'm coming back here to read for a bit. Culture, parenting, justice, compassion, theology, etc…that's where I'm interested. But I will warn you, if you link to my blog of late, it is booooring, and my linking theological one is la-aame. I've been writing off screen and not filling in the blanks when I'm in front of the computer. So don't judge on those! But I'm happy to know yet another person with common interests and hopes for the world (and reading lists). Oh. Fair warning. I married a Taylor guy, so I know that might prevent us from being friends
Grace and Shalom to you…
I entered the conversation through a National Youth Workers Convention, if you can believe it! Back in 2003 in St. Louis. It was just after Mike Yaconelli had passed and there was such a different feel to it. I remember feeling, for the first time, like I wasn't alone. There were other "crazy people" like me out there – questioning, talking, thinking. It felt like coming home. That's when I met the people I later came to read.
And then my husband went to a national pastors convention where he met Stan Grenz. They talked for quite a while and that got us moving even further into the conversation.
I also found the Ooze very early but had a hard time getting to know people through that. Just felt a bit closed to me at that time. I did/do like to read the articles though.
I had to laugh at the line about a clandestine copy of Brian McLaren's book.
My entry point was back in 2006 through articles and postings online. Late night hours spent reading and much of that included the Ooze though I never participated in the conversations. But I never shared with anyone what I was reading or the questions that were tumbling through my head.
One night, sitting in the parking lot of Barnes and Noble with my closest friend, just minutes before she had to leave to go home to the next state. She looked at me and said, "What do you know about the emerging church." I literally broke out in a sweat, gulped and said, "Why?"
Finally we confessed to each other reading Brian McLaren (I remember she hid her copy from her husband). That opened the floodgate so to speak and we began this journey.
It has taken me two years to find others locally who are entering the conversation. What can I say? Everything seems to be a bit slower here in SC. We have our first cohort meeting next week. This will be a great question to throw out to the group.
Sarah, Julie and I were at the 2003 NYWC in St. Louis as well. It was a great time, and definitely different with Yac's recent passing and all. The best part of the week, IMHO, was Jay Bakker's talk. I bought the DVD of it to show to my youth group later.
Anyhow, small world, eh?
Actually, though I've never commented here before and so perhaps I'm not part of the conversation yet, it was reading your blog and your stories about Via Christus that perhaps made me realize that this emerging thing (whatever it's called) matches up pretty well with where I am. Thanks.
It's been a little bit of a back and forth journey for me…being a part of a post-modern (not quite all the way to emergent) church back in the late 90's, then back to the evangelical camp for a little while. I was at a conference where Spencer Burke spoke back in maybe 2004 too. My first real foray into the Emergent conversation was Spencer Burke's book A Heretic's Guide to Eternity and from there, Velvet Elvis, Dan Kimball's books and some Brian McLaren. I've gone back and forth on theOoze.com…in the end I just never had enough time to keep up with message boards. Still looking for people in person that are asking these questions and searching, but I live in a pretty small area right now.
Hey Julie – my entry into emergent was through my husband, Dave, who's always been a wanderer and questions everything. I also had a stomach-turning bout as an assistant to a senior pastor at a mega-church. I never really questioned too much about Christianity and the culture; I just always accepted it as the way it was. But my "leadership" position at the church made me question everything about the religion. Velvet Elvis was my first and only emergent read, but you could say that I read A New Kind of Christian osmosisly through Dave and all the other books he read – he regurgitates everything he reads to me. I'm still searching and questioning, but I believe it strengthens my faith rather than weakens it. Thanks for letting us borrow "Love Actually" over Christmas…it's such a jem when you watch it w/o the conservative parents!
Hey, Julie, I'd say that I entered the conversation through my mentor and her husband at the beginning of 2003 – i was going through a really rough time and was asking a lot of questions about God and church and life and my mentor and her family where also asking a lot of questions. She recommended New Kind of Christian to me and I clung to that book like it was a new life line. There were definitely things I wasn't sure I agreed with in there at the time, but it was so refreshing to feel like someone else was asking the questions my friends and I were asking and I wasn't alone. McLaren's voice gave me the freedom to voice my own thoughts and questions. I did occasionally check out the ooze, but I never really connected there – maybe partly because soon after reading the book and sharing it with friends I felt like I had a decent amount of people around me who were in the same place, so I didn't feel the need to seek others out as much.
thanks for this question – it's been interesting to hear a little of where people have come from and how they entered the conversation.
Hmmm. I suppose I'm part of this conversation in some way, though I never really thought of it like that. I'm not "emerging" in the sense that it often seems to be used, of one shaped by some form of Christianity shifting or growing through that into something else. Of course, what I believe, how I perceive reality, and what I understand about God is always shifting, changing, and growing. But that's been true my whole life. It didn't stop when my compass shifted toward the God made known in Christ.
I do remember when I heard about The Ooze. I guess it was about four years ago. A friend who was involved in it and who, I suppose, looks more like the classic emerging descriptions above, as he learned more about my background, became curious how someone like me would react to it. I saw some stuff that caught my interest, but nothing there that could really sustain my attention.
Hmmm. That same friend loaned me McLaren's A Generous Orthodoxy. Until his recent intro book to the Ancient Practices series, that's the only one of his works I've read. I found it an easy read and insightful at places. The generous aspect is almost native to me, coming as I do from a highly pluralistic and often syncretic spiritual background.
I think, however, that he downplays a real problem in present-day Christianity. The "Jesuses" presented in many of these different paths are often, if you dig even an inch below the surface, so different from each other that they hardly even look like the same person. Since Christianity hinges on a personal God who relates to us by taking on all we are so we can grow in intimate communion with him through Jesus of Nazareth, not just some idea or concept about Jesus, but an actual person, that's a problem.
That may be why I've found N.T. Wright immensely helpful as I've explored this Christian faith. The Jesus he describes is consistent with the time, the setting, patristic writings, scripture, and seems more like the person who drew me into this faith.
If you try to relate to me, but your conceptions, ideas, and interpretation of what I say are wildly different from who I actually am, you are not going to truly relate to me at all. We can sit face to face and talk and be at a complete disconnect. It seems to me that the same thing is true between God and us.
My story is somewhat similar to your Julie. Around 2001 I found the Ooze (I think I achieved Asshat status!). I found that it no longer was a place of growth for me as well and haven't been back there in years. A New Kind of Christian was also an entry point for me. That has led to alot of authors/discussions: Lesslie Newbigin, John Franke (even taking classes at Biblical Seminary), Stan Grenz, NT Wright, etc. I also found a church with a pastor who finds himself with a heart for emerging thought, but a congregation still holding on to "the way things are". Lately, I've been really reading more about the inner journey, via Nouwen, Palmer, Rohr, etc.
For me it's been a journey that began when the typical "Christian life" wasn't working for me. My husband was amazed when he first met some people who were talking about post modernity that he was no longer alone in how he thought and how he viewed the church. As I was able to gain some new vocabulary, it really helped me be able to understand why I felt so out of place in the modern church I was attending. Reading books by Miller and Mclaren, Kimball etc. also helped me form my thinking. We finally began a church plant 4 years ago which although helpful, hasn't quite morphed into the vision/mission we still have that burns in our hearts. We still have a desire to meet others who understand our way of life and thinking. I appreciate your blog! I read your website of your past church and am sad I cannot visit it! but alas we live in the East.
wow – great stories here. And welcome to the new commenters!
I admit, ones background does greatly affect how one enters this conversation. Those from traditions that celebrate truth wherever it may be found may not have had to hide the fact that they read McLaren. And of course it is possible to be a part of the conversation without being emerging. I appreciate those who are willing to discuss, learn, and challenge even while disagreeing (to whatever extent)… its those that refuse to engage as they condemn that bother me.
I love hearing these stories and seeing how much of a web of connections the conversation really is – friends talking with friends…
These are nice stories. It's great to see these kind of things. I came into emerging/emergent things from the backdoor of "underground ministry", or goth/punk/metal/hippie/etc. ways of doing church. I'd resonate with Mike's mention of Jay Bakker; I think I ran across him in the late 90s, and met him in 2001-ish (I spent some time at Revolution Atlanta later, as well). Around that time, I met someone who was part of the underground railroad, and through that I found Andrew Jones, and many others who are mentioned there.
Andrew is an interesting one for me, as he also recognizes the link between the underground scenes and emerging things. Sometimes, though, it is hard for people to go from one to the other.
A little after that, though, I had an English professor who taught a class that sought to engage theology with literature, art, and culture in general, and he took us to postmodernism and also to Brian McLaren (some of his articles, and More Ready Than You Realize), and some of the things that were going on at Fuller.
Ahem. Sorry for missing the end of the italics after Realize. Can you fix that, perhaps?
Lauren Winner
'Girl Meets God'
Shane Claibourne
'Jesus for President'
Anne Lamott
'Traveling Mercies, Some Thoughts on Faith'
John Shelby Spong
'A New Christianity for a New World'
Yeah, Julie, for me it was more like that–celebrating truth wherever it may be found. Though my old atheist buddies don't seem to like this truth much.
For me it was Velvet Elvis, then Brian McLaren and discovering there were Christians who were ok with thinking. That was a joyful discovery!
I really really love this emergent thing.
Egads i feel old! I have never plunged into the fray or the ooze, but i've been following the emergent movement from way back in the late 90's when a good friend did her ph'd on what was then called the Gen X/postmodern movement.( I still hoard my old Re:Generation Quarterly mags) I watched it then merge into the current Emergent form as more and more Gen x'ers and Millenials take on leadership roles in existing churches or start their own churches out of sheer frustration. It'll be interesting to see what's next for this movement!
This comment by Julie would probably (hopefully) describe me: "And of course it is possible to be a part of the conversation without being emerging. I appreciate those who are willing to discuss, learn, and challenge even while disagreeing (to whatever extent)."
As far as an entry point, my entry point into these kinds of conversations predates McLaren's writing. For me, on the social justice front it was Ron Sider's "Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger", Evangelicals for Social Action and PRISM Magazine all of which I discovered in the early 90's. On the worship/ecclesiology/theology front it was Bob Weber's writing, starting with Evangelicals on the Canterbury Trail and on into others of his books, Tom Howard's "Evangelical is Not Enough" and reading the faith journeys of evangelicals who had converted to Catholicism and Orthodoxy (Frederica Matthews-Green, Frank Schaeffer).
My entry point included studying postmodern philosophy at Wheaton College, hanging out in the dorm listening to Rob Bell and his band play songs with titles like "Velvet Elvis" and having these types of conversations with fellow Wheaton students and alums – including re-processing the Wheaton experience with a couple of thoughtful fellow alums who were in grad (law) school with me, one of whom had been a philosophy major and the other a EngLit major.
For me, McLaren was kind of a late addition, and he was talking about stuff I'd been thinking and talking about with friends for over a decade. He (and online emerging communities like the Ooze) frustrated me because while I really resonated with many of the questions being asked and objections being made, I had come to different conclusions in many instances re. how to respond to those questions and objections. Part of that difference sprung from my experience in leaving evangelicalism for a time for several years in the Episcopal church.
Sorry to be so late in adding to this interesting conversation…
Six years in a wonderful evangelical church still left me feeling around the fringes most of the time. Many early excursions into Richard Foster, Anne Lamott, Donald Miller, Nouwen… Followed by the incredible blessing of a sermon in our very own church given by Scot McKnight and a chance to purchase "The Jesus Creed" right in the lobby. Ka-ching! Now I had a name for all of my fring-y thoughts.
It's been down/ or up hill ever since, depending on how you look at it. That sermon must have been 2004, but preceded by years/decades of wondering what on earth was "wrong" with me. We were even part of a quaker house church back around 1979, 1980. Deep roots of rebellion.
Now my bookshelf is overrun with all the usual suspects, my main budget item is amazon.com, and the Jesus Creed blog is 2nd only to checking my email. And I drop by here every now and then.