<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Love and Sin</title>
	<atom:link href="http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/</link>
	<description>incantations at the edge of uncertainty</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 03:00:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Maryanne</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-3967</link>
		<dc:creator>Maryanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/#comment-3967</guid>
		<description>I just discovered your blog.  It&#039;s really interesting!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just discovered your blog.  It&#039;s really interesting!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Julie Clawson</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-3914</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie Clawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/#comment-3914</guid>
		<description>thanks for the great comments.  i&#039;ve been disconnected for the past few days, so sorry to not interact.  to address a couple issues -

I don&#039;t think we have to get rid of the idea of original sin.  I agree with Melissa that often what is needed is just a different way of looking at people.  At the same time though some of the more extreme version of original sin make that impossible.  I would be wary of conceptions that portray people as first and foremost sinful.  That is not how we were created in the image of God.  We are all broken and in need of healing, but that makes sin more of a corruption or rift than the basis of our identity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for the great comments.  i&#039;ve been disconnected for the past few days, so sorry to not interact.  to address a couple issues -</p>
<p>I don&#039;t think we have to get rid of the idea of original sin.  I agree with Melissa that often what is needed is just a different way of looking at people.  At the same time though some of the more extreme version of original sin make that impossible.  I would be wary of conceptions that portray people as first and foremost sinful.  That is not how we were created in the image of God.  We are all broken and in need of healing, but that makes sin more of a corruption or rift than the basis of our identity.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul Maurice Martin</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-3913</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Maurice Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/#comment-3913</guid>
		<description>What you say here really resonates with me. We have scripture that teaches us how much God loved the world - and I think that we&#039;re here to do the same, to give our own lives, to dedicate them to the larger world in our own ways as well as we can.

But somehow Christianity seemed to become more about &quot;getting saved&quot; - a kind of personal reward/punishment system we sign onto. You worship the Christ to get a good place at the table. 

I don&#039;t care about my place at the table; I care about the future of my species. I wish more people, especially in leadership positions both secular and religious, felt the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you say here really resonates with me. We have scripture that teaches us how much God loved the world &#8211; and I think that we&#039;re here to do the same, to give our own lives, to dedicate them to the larger world in our own ways as well as we can.</p>
<p>But somehow Christianity seemed to become more about &#034;getting saved&#034; &#8211; a kind of personal reward/punishment system we sign onto. You worship the Christ to get a good place at the table. </p>
<p>I don&#039;t care about my place at the table; I care about the future of my species. I wish more people, especially in leadership positions both secular and religious, felt the same.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Karl</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-3909</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/#comment-3909</guid>
		<description>Well said Melissa. That I can support; maybe I read something into the post that wasn&#039;t there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Melissa. That I can support; maybe I read something into the post that wasn&#039;t there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: melissa</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-3907</link>
		<dc:creator>melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/#comment-3907</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t get the feeling that this passage was calling for the eradication of the notion of original sin, but rather a reorienting of Christian love.  We are all broken and sinful from birth - I think that most of us here would see that as a given.  

But when we let the reality of human sinfulness provide us an excuse to keep from loving someone, when we view Christian love as a way to speak judgment against others (instead of speaking hope), when we think about Christian love toward others ONLY in terms of &quot;saving sinners,&quot; then we have missed the mark.  We are called to love our enemies and to bless those who curse us.  Doesn&#039;t it follow that we are also then called to love one another fully in spite of our sin/sins?  

Or perhaps, put a better way, aren&#039;t we called to love one another because God loves us, not because we expect anything or have any agenda.  God loves us (so much that God sent Jesus to die for us!); therefore we should love others.  It&#039;s about as simple as that.

1 Corinthians has something to say about all this: &quot;4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.&quot;

I think the connection to original sin here is that when we are conditioned to think about people first according to their sins, and only then according to their identity as a child of God, we don&#039;t end up doing a good job of loving.  It&#039;s not a matter of giving up on the doctrine of original sin, but rather a reminder that in our everyday interactions with people, we would do well to see each other first as children of God and then as broken, and not the other way around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#039;t get the feeling that this passage was calling for the eradication of the notion of original sin, but rather a reorienting of Christian love.  We are all broken and sinful from birth &#8211; I think that most of us here would see that as a given.  </p>
<p>But when we let the reality of human sinfulness provide us an excuse to keep from loving someone, when we view Christian love as a way to speak judgment against others (instead of speaking hope), when we think about Christian love toward others ONLY in terms of &#034;saving sinners,&#034; then we have missed the mark.  We are called to love our enemies and to bless those who curse us.  Doesn&#039;t it follow that we are also then called to love one another fully in spite of our sin/sins?  </p>
<p>Or perhaps, put a better way, aren&#039;t we called to love one another because God loves us, not because we expect anything or have any agenda.  God loves us (so much that God sent Jesus to die for us!); therefore we should love others.  It&#039;s about as simple as that.</p>
<p>1 Corinthians has something to say about all this: &#034;4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.&#034;</p>
<p>I think the connection to original sin here is that when we are conditioned to think about people first according to their sins, and only then according to their identity as a child of God, we don&#039;t end up doing a good job of loving.  It&#039;s not a matter of giving up on the doctrine of original sin, but rather a reminder that in our everyday interactions with people, we would do well to see each other first as children of God and then as broken, and not the other way around.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Karl</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-3906</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/#comment-3906</guid>
		<description>The post seems to imply that it is necessary to give up the doctrine of original sin in order to be able to love others like Jesus did.  Or that not loving others well and unconditionally is a natural and necessary result of belief in original sin.

That seems to be countered by a significant weight of historical evidence of Christians, Catholic and protestant, who both believed in original sin, and who also showed love to all unconditionally.  Not all or even most Christians by any stretch.  But enough to make me question a suggestion that belief in original sin is where the problem really lies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The post seems to imply that it is necessary to give up the doctrine of original sin in order to be able to love others like Jesus did.  Or that not loving others well and unconditionally is a natural and necessary result of belief in original sin.</p>
<p>That seems to be countered by a significant weight of historical evidence of Christians, Catholic and protestant, who both believed in original sin, and who also showed love to all unconditionally.  Not all or even most Christians by any stretch.  But enough to make me question a suggestion that belief in original sin is where the problem really lies.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: melissa</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-3905</link>
		<dc:creator>melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/#comment-3905</guid>
		<description>&quot;The idea seems to be that if some sort of sin can be pinned on a person that gets us off the hook for having to love them.&quot;

Very well-said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;The idea seems to be that if some sort of sin can be pinned on a person that gets us off the hook for having to love them.&#034;</p>
<p>Very well-said.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pastor Chad</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-3904</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/#comment-3904</guid>
		<description>Thanks Julie, it is so hard for us to see the good in others; that God&#039;s image has not been erased from them.

Perhaps it is because we want to find a way around the commandment to love our neighbour?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Julie, it is so hard for us to see the good in others; that God&#039;s image has not been erased from them.</p>
<p>Perhaps it is because we want to find a way around the commandment to love our neighbour?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ed G</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-3903</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/#comment-3903</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve found this in my own life too, where I concentrate on my own sinful nature and how I can &quot;get rid&quot; of sin in my life.

More recently, instead of walking away from sin, I am trying instead to walk towards love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.  Thanks for sharing this post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;ve found this in my own life too, where I concentrate on my own sinful nature and how I can &#034;get rid&#034; of sin in my life.</p>
<p>More recently, instead of walking away from sin, I am trying instead to walk towards love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.  Thanks for sharing this post.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wesley</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-3902</link>
		<dc:creator>Wesley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 06:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2009/01/04/love-and-sin/#comment-3902</guid>
		<description>Great words Julie.. it IS quite dangerous to fall out of the habit of love, but we see it everyday, don&#039;t we? I just stumbled across your blog, I look forward to following what you have to say! Grace and peace, Wesley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great words Julie.. it IS quite dangerous to fall out of the habit of love, but we see it everyday, don&#039;t we? I just stumbled across your blog, I look forward to following what you have to say! Grace and peace, Wesley</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

