Comments on: Singing the Songs of Zion in Babylon http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/ Sun, 05 Sep 2010 21:13:41 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Tia Lynn http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/comment-page-1/#comment-3056 Tia Lynn Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:31:26 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/#comment-3056 Hey Julie, I don't know if you've read over on my blog, but I linked to this post of yours and some interesting conversation has transpired. One commenter remarked that in other parts of the bible, God does explicitly command to slaughter babies, so this one example cannot be used to "tame" God. I obviously I disagree with this. Since you have probably wrestled with those passages in the OT, as have I, I was wondering if you had any words of wisdom to contribute to the conversation over on my blog. :) Hey Julie, I don’t know if you’ve read over on my blog, but I linked to this post of yours and some interesting conversation has transpired. One commenter remarked that in other parts of the bible, God does explicitly command to slaughter babies, so this one example cannot be used to “tame” God. I obviously I disagree with this. Since you have probably wrestled with those passages in the OT, as have I, I was wondering if you had any words of wisdom to contribute to the conversation over on my blog. :)

]]> By: Rose http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/comment-page-1/#comment-3055 Rose Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:52:15 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/#comment-3055 Julie, very well said, some would say Jeremiah's letter to the exiles is a charge to live missionally...your thoughts are excellent. Julie,
very well said, some would say Jeremiah’s letter to the exiles is a charge to live missionally…your thoughts are excellent.

]]> By: Julie Clawson http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/comment-page-1/#comment-3053 Julie Clawson Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:59:50 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/#comment-3053 thanks for the comments. I've been offline most of the week, so sorry I haven't been able to respond... thanks for the comments. I’ve been offline most of the week, so sorry I haven’t been able to respond…

]]> By: Beth Patterson http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/comment-page-1/#comment-3051 Beth Patterson Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:51:37 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/#comment-3051 Julie-- I particularly resonated with your post on the synchroblog...thank you for the depth of 'digging' it entailed! Really liked RJ's Rumi story in relationship to your post. I suspect, that you are a love-dog! Thanks again-- Julie–
I particularly resonated with your post on the synchroblog…thank you for the depth of ‘digging’ it entailed!

Really liked RJ’s Rumi story in relationship to your post. I suspect, that you are a love-dog!

Thanks again–

]]> By: william (tia's husband) http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/comment-page-1/#comment-3050 william (tia's husband) Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:00:45 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/#comment-3050 Wow, Tia told me to read this and I never had put the two passages together like that. Being raised in a traditional Christian church I always would read the Bible thinking every passage was God's will. Obviously, there are passages that are just speaking about the feelings of those people or the actions that they took but it doesn't say that was always the right way. I'm so glad you made it clear that Jeremiah opposed that way of thinking and that God did not desire Israel's heart to be so cold as to kill babies. This is one of the most wonderful insights i have ever read....Thank you for posting. Wow, Tia told me to read this and I never had put the two passages together like that. Being raised in a traditional Christian church I always would read the Bible thinking every passage was God’s will. Obviously, there are passages that are just speaking about the feelings of those people or the actions that they took but it doesn’t say that was always the right way. I’m so glad you made it clear that Jeremiah opposed that way of thinking and that God did not desire Israel’s heart to be so cold as to kill babies. This is one of the most wonderful insights i have ever read….Thank you for posting.

]]> By: Tia Lynn http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/comment-page-1/#comment-3049 Tia Lynn Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:44:51 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/#comment-3049 Julie, You have out done yourself with this one. This post is specifically meaningful to me because I have often wondered about the verse that praises those who smashed the heads of babies against rocks. Being raised in a tradition that takes nearly everything in the bible to be prescriptive, opposed to descriptive, I could not understand how God could "endorse" such a prayer. I now see that God had nothing to do with the cry for revenge against enemies, but the scripture was merely communicating the state of heart among the Jewish captives, a state of heart that God later rebukes in Jeremiah. Thank you, thank you for weaving that all together and highlighting its relevance for today among us "captives." :) Julie,

You have out done yourself with this one. This post is specifically meaningful to me because I have often wondered about the verse that praises those who smashed the heads of babies against rocks. Being raised in a tradition that takes nearly everything in the bible to be prescriptive, opposed to descriptive, I could not understand how God could “endorse” such a prayer. I now see that God had nothing to do with the cry for revenge against enemies, but the scripture was merely communicating the state of heart among the Jewish captives, a state of heart that God later rebukes in Jeremiah. Thank you, thank you for weaving that all together and highlighting its relevance for today among us “captives.” :)

]]> By: dan Wilt http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/comment-page-1/#comment-3048 dan Wilt Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:28:11 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/#comment-3048 In an ever increasing way, we deeply need to continue to create liminal (threshold) spaces where the interfacing spheres of heaven and earth are transversed regularly by ordinary human beings. The longing for our home is the anticipation of the two "spheres of creation" - heaven (where God dwells) and earth (where we dwell) - becoming utterly one. We won't be settled until the seen and unseen are mingled, but our acts of worship lead us to the threshold. Thanks for the post. Cheers to Home. In an ever increasing way, we deeply need to continue to create liminal (threshold) spaces where the interfacing spheres of heaven and earth are transversed regularly by ordinary human beings.

The longing for our home is the anticipation of the two “spheres of creation” – heaven (where God dwells) and earth (where we dwell) – becoming utterly one.

We won’t be settled until the seen and unseen are mingled, but our acts of worship lead us to the threshold.

Thanks for the post. Cheers to Home.

]]> By: RJ http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/comment-page-1/#comment-3047 RJ Wed, 23 Jul 2008 05:20:19 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/#comment-3047 Julie,my church community will be singing this psalm (this week and last) in the Jewish canon version as we look at both the harshness of God's prophetic emptiness and how to hear/sing the Lord's song in this strange land. Bono says these are the blues - laments - that are essntial in our grief. And Brueggemann suggests that this is also a way to hear the voices of those that are usually drowned out. (I've been thinking about these truths a lot as of late...) And one of the best insights for me comes from the Sufi poet, Rumi, who wrote:One night a man was crying, "Allah! Allah!" His lips grew sweet with the praising until a cynic said, "So, I have heard you calling out, but have you ever gotten any response?" The man had no answer to that. He quit praying and fell into a confused sleep. He dreamed he saw Khidr, the guide of souls, in a think, green foliage. "Why did you stop praising?" "Because I never heard anything back." This longing you express IS the return message. The grief you cry out from draws you toward union. Your pure sadness that wants help is the secret cup. Listen to the moan of a dog for its master. That whining is the connection. There are love-dogs on one knows the names of: give your life to become one of them." Thanks for your writing. It helps. Julie,my church community will be singing this psalm (this week and last) in the Jewish canon version as we look at both the harshness of God’s prophetic emptiness and how to hear/sing the Lord’s song in this strange land. Bono says these are the blues – laments – that are essntial in our grief. And Brueggemann suggests that this is also a way to hear the voices of those that are usually drowned out. (I’ve been thinking about these truths a lot as of late…)

And one of the best insights for me comes from the Sufi poet, Rumi, who wrote:One night a man was crying, “Allah! Allah!” His lips grew sweet with the praising until a cynic said, “So, I have heard you calling out, but have you ever gotten any response?”

The man had no answer to that. He quit praying and fell into a confused sleep. He dreamed he saw Khidr, the guide of souls, in a think, green foliage. “Why did you stop praising?” “Because I never heard anything back.” This longing you express IS the return message. The grief you cry out from draws you toward union. Your pure sadness that wants help is the secret cup. Listen to the moan of a dog for its master. That whining is the connection. There are love-dogs on one knows the names of: give your life to become one of them.”

Thanks for your writing. It helps.

]]> By: Ravine of Light » Won’t Get Fooled Again (July Synchroblog - God’s Politics) http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/comment-page-1/#comment-3046 Ravine of Light » Won’t Get Fooled Again (July Synchroblog - God’s Politics) Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:11:07 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/#comment-3046 [...] at On Earth as in Heaven KW Leslie tells us about God’s Politics Julie Clawson is Singing the Songs of Zion in Babylon Dan Stone at The Tense Before Alan Knox asks Is God Red, Blue, or Purple? Beth Patterson at The [...] [...] at On Earth as in Heaven KW Leslie tells us about God’s Politics Julie Clawson is Singing the Songs of Zion in Babylon Dan Stone at The Tense Before Alan Knox asks Is God Red, Blue, or Purple? Beth Patterson at The [...]

]]> By: John Hamilton http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/comment-page-1/#comment-3045 John Hamilton Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:19:09 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/07/22/singing-the-songs-of-zion-in-babylon/#comment-3045 Julie, isn't there a thinly veiled contempt (or not so thinly) in many separatist or puritan attitudes toward the world? Yet if we take seriously that God loves the world, shouldn't we? Shouldn't we ally ourselves with the best people we can find? Or is our contempt really sour grapes (bad figs) that we aren't in power any more (as if we ever were). I like Bonhoeffer's concept of Christianity from below, Christianity sans privilege and position, Christianity willing to roll up its sleeves and make a difference, even if we have to rub elbows with a secular humanist or two. Thanks for your thoughts. Julie, isn’t there a thinly veiled contempt (or not so thinly) in many separatist or puritan attitudes toward the world? Yet if we take seriously that God loves the world, shouldn’t we? Shouldn’t we ally ourselves with the best people we can find? Or is our contempt really sour grapes (bad figs) that we aren’t in power any more (as if we ever were). I like Bonhoeffer’s concept of Christianity from below, Christianity sans privilege and position, Christianity willing to roll up its sleeves and make a difference, even if we have to rub elbows with a secular humanist or two. Thanks for your thoughts.

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