Comments on: Making Room for Women's Voices http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/ incantations at the edge of uncertainty Sat, 11 Feb 2012 03:00:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Daughters and Sons : Jesus Manifesto http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/comment-page-1/#comment-2966 Daughters and Sons : Jesus Manifesto Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:03:48 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/#comment-2966 [...] them, and who use their voices to share their revelations with all of us. For several years, Julie Clawson has been providing me with a comfortable space (and somewhat incessant nudge) to explore the [...] [...] them, and who use their voices to share their revelations with all of us. For several years, Julie Clawson has been providing me with a comfortable space (and somewhat incessant nudge) to explore the [...]

]]> By: Julie Clawson http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/comment-page-1/#comment-2716 Julie Clawson Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:42:43 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/#comment-2716 I agree with Rose that there are ways to make it work. It seems strange in a way to have a man get up and talk about the need to include women but not actually include them. I understand that the steps may be small at first, but an ongoing commitment to pursue a balancing of voices is needed. A one time message or speech won't do much long term good unless the structures are actually altered. I agree with Rose that there are ways to make it work. It seems strange in a way to have a man get up and talk about the need to include women but not actually include them. I understand that the steps may be small at first, but an ongoing commitment to pursue a balancing of voices is needed. A one time message or speech won't do much long term good unless the structures are actually altered.

]]> By: Rose http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/comment-page-1/#comment-2710 Rose Thu, 24 Apr 2008 01:57:54 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/#comment-2710 Once when Jim was leading an Off The Map event in Ft Wayne, Indiana he had invited me to speak. The church hosting the event did not allow women to speak from the pulpit. We did not know this until the night we arrived, the day before the conference was to begin. I was told by one of the elders that I could not stand behind the pulpit and do anything that resembled preaching, I would not be allowed to quote Scripture. He said what would be acceptable is if I said I was a "missionary from Seattle and I was here to give my report from the field" to which Jim told me he was very sorry and I did not have to do participate at all...I decided to do it, I began my talk with, "Hi I am Rose and I am a missionary in Seattle, WA..." it appears the main elder that was opposed to me speaking was struck by my talk, he was the only one of the elders arguing that their church needed to take a look at what it would mean to begin intentionally turning their (mega) church toward a mindset of missionality. All this to say, I think there are ways for women to participate even when there is not a space...I think Brian would find a way to include a women's voice even if it was totally not acceptable. Once when Jim was leading an Off The Map event in Ft Wayne, Indiana he had invited me to speak. The church hosting the event did not allow women to speak from the pulpit. We did not know this until the night we arrived, the day before the conference was to begin. I was told by one of the elders that I could not stand behind the pulpit and do anything that resembled preaching, I would not be allowed to quote Scripture. He said what would be acceptable is if I said I was a "missionary from Seattle and I was here to give my report from the field" to which Jim told me he was very sorry and I did not have to do participate at all…I decided to do it, I began my talk with, "Hi I am Rose and I am a missionary in Seattle, WA…" it appears the main elder that was opposed to me speaking was struck by my talk, he was the only one of the elders arguing that their church needed to take a look at what it would mean to begin intentionally turning their (mega) church toward a mindset of missionality. All this to say, I think there are ways for women to participate even when there is not a space…I think Brian would find a way to include a women's voice even if it was totally not acceptable.

]]> By: eugene http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/comment-page-1/#comment-2708 eugene Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:51:57 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/#comment-2708 so, i guess the natural question would be..."how?" for brian, is it better for him to not participate at these gatherings or to go and "speak" and highlight injustices and oppression? it's a rhetorical question. i don't think there's one way but something i think about. so, i guess the natural question would be…"how?"

for brian, is it better for him to not participate at these gatherings or to go and "speak" and highlight injustices and oppression?

it's a rhetorical question. i don't think there's one way but something i think about.

]]> By: Rose http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/comment-page-1/#comment-2706 Rose Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:31:29 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/#comment-2706 Julie, I agree with you, the "big names" are in position to help change the structures. It is one thing to agree, it's another thing to use your influence and place of privilege to make space for others. Julie,
I agree with you, the "big names" are in position to help change the structures. It is one thing to agree, it's another thing to use your influence and place of privilege to make space for others.

]]> By: Julie Clawson http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/comment-page-1/#comment-2705 Julie Clawson Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:49:31 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/#comment-2705 Eugene - good questions. The basic honest answer is - I'm not in a position to be picking and choosing opportunities. I don't do much leading or speaking beyond my own church setting. So it's kinda hard to speak to a non-existent issue. The few opportunities I have had to speak have been in settings where efforts were made to represent a diversity of voices (of genders, races, denominations). I have started having the courage to ask event planners about disparity of voices when I do see it (as opposed to just complaining with the women about it). Often I find that they never thought that women should be included or that that they assumed that if women wanted to be involved we would have asked to be (which is so not how things work, but that's another issue). I think the "big names" are in a special position to help push for change. They are being invited to speak, they have power (whether they want it or not), and have the opportunity to use that power for the sake of others. Eugene – good questions.

The basic honest answer is – I'm not in a position to be picking and choosing opportunities. I don't do much leading or speaking beyond my own church setting. So it's kinda hard to speak to a non-existent issue. The few opportunities I have had to speak have been in settings where efforts were made to represent a diversity of voices (of genders, races, denominations).

I have started having the courage to ask event planners about disparity of voices when I do see it (as opposed to just complaining with the women about it). Often I find that they never thought that women should be included or that that they assumed that if women wanted to be involved we would have asked to be (which is so not how things work, but that's another issue).

I think the "big names" are in a special position to help push for change. They are being invited to speak, they have power (whether they want it or not), and have the opportunity to use that power for the sake of others.

]]> By: eugene http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/comment-page-1/#comment-2704 eugene Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:23:00 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/23/making-room-for-womens-voices/#comment-2704 julie, quick questions. so, do you personally choose to avoid opportunities where the organization doesn't "fully" support women in all levels of ministry or is it if there isn't any female representation? what if you are the lone rep of a huge boatload of speakers? or is it a case by case situation? julie,

quick questions.

so, do you personally choose to avoid opportunities where the organization doesn't "fully" support women in all levels of ministry or is it if there isn't any female representation? what if you are the lone rep of a huge boatload of speakers? or is it a case by case situation?

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