Food too is a complex issue. The poor quality of food available in urban areas is a well documented issue, I encourage you to look it up. Many kids do have access to one or two "healthy" meals a day through school lunch programs. But there are issues there as well. What is considered "healthy" school food is heavily influenced by lobbyests pushing their crop. So once again most of the food served in schools is corn based – high in calories, low in nutrition. And many children do not want the social stigma attached to the free lunch program. so although it is available, they choose to go hungry rather than be labeled and mocked by their peers. Yes this is illogical, but it demonstrates that the answers are not as simple as they seem.

The Northern Illinois Food Bank does a lot of great stuff. But it doesn't come anywhere close to meeting demand. I've worked for ministries that shell out the $600 to get the truck to deliver food and "frozen on expiration date" donated meat to impoverished neighborhoods. People are always turned away. So beyond ethnic families getting the cast off mac and cheese from middle class white pantries, the system although good isn't enough. Perhaps at some point we need to stop and think about why there isn't enough food, why the people can't afford food, and what can be done to change those things.

And I am not denying that the US has done a lot of good around the world. We do give lots of money and aid. numerically our government gives the most aid money of any developed nation – but at the same time that number represents the lowest percent of the budget of those nations as well (the widows' mite story comes to mind here). I am not denying those things. I'm just asking for people to admit that we've screwed things up as well. That there are people hurting in this world because of US policies and actions. (and I will not for a minute conceed that our troops today are protecting my freedom of speech – that is so laughable I don't even know where to begin).

So I just wonder what it is you want. For me to pat America on the back and say "well done."? To accept prejudiced ideas that if people just worked hard and acted like another demographic that they would not be poor? That countries should not be responsible for their actions? That the command to love others doesn't apply to Americans? That it's okay for me to ask for blessing for myself without blessing others? That repentance isn't necessary for empire?

"If you can look at a starving child or the parents of a child mutilated by bombs and tell them 'Christ is ENOUGH' and walk away I honestly question if you truly believe in this Christ you proclaim."

Huh? Walk away? You certainly are not adding to your credibility with responses like that.

Thanks for the invite, Wes.

Helping people meet their basic needs when in crisis is an important goal. But it shouldn't be the ONLY goal. The justice question has to do with what we as a society could be doing to better address the root causes of poverty and the basic flaws in society that perpetuate this poverty. It means grappling with questions about how a person working full-time at a minimum wage job still falls well below the poverty line. It means grappling with rising food costs. It means asking questions about taxes and affordable housing and crime rates.

I don't argue that many people and many organizations have contributed incredibly generous amounts of time, money, and effort toward charitable causes. I don't argue that many people have been helped. But I do wonder if we sometimes use charity as an excuse not to do advocacy.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I know that I myself grapple with the relationship between charity and justice, and wonder if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter.

Despite the many enormous problems with public housing, among them is not that they were built in urban areas without grocery stores. That's just not true. I grew up in the city, blocks away from subsidized housing, and can assure you that we had plenty of grocery stores. The area around Cabrini had tens of thousands of inhabitants. There were grocery stores. As for the children, I can testify that I attended a Chicago Public High School, and that nutritious school breakfasts as well as lunches were always available to the kids who needed them. Further, because I have spent a few Saturday mornings at the Northern Illinois Food bank, I can agree that we do pack many cases of processed food, but I have also personally packed many hundreds of pounds of fresh beef, chicken, pork and fish. True, the NIFB cannot handle produce, but regardless I stand by my assertion that no one need go hungry in this nation – certainly not as a result of government or corporate malfeasance.

Look, of course it's not perfect. It can't be. But in my opinion, to make blanket statements that corporations and the American Government are somehow screwing the poor is just false.

Oh and by as to those token good works. I submit that the good people of this country are by far the most generous in the history of civilization. Forget the trillions of dollars in foreign aid that Americans public and private send overseas each year. Forget the armies of humanitarian aid workers that we send to help with natural disasters around the world. Consider only the tens of millions of people around the world who no longer live in the shadow of totalitarianism thanks to the blood of those spilled at Belleau Wood, Anzio, Normandy, Iwo Jima, Chosin Reservoir, and Hue. And don't forget about our brothers in arms this day either. Without them, we would not have the freedom to engage in this silly debate, nor would we have the freedom to make cheeky public statements like "G-D America".

Of course there are still problems. We are sinful people. But for whatever it’s worth, I believe that the world is a far better place because this nation exists. God Bless America, Julie and Reverend Jeremiah Wright. I am very sorry you cannot bring yourselves to say that.

Oh, and Stephen – nice post.

I'd drop any efforts at rational conversation here. Neo-Julie isn't responding… come on over with me, the water's warmer over here.

Doulos