Comments on: Do I Like Jesus? http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/ incantations at the edge of uncertainty Mon, 21 May 2012 01:57:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: David http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-2707 David Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:51:45 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/#comment-2707 Terrific post! I echo your whole fearing Jesus wouldn't sit down and sup with a gentile. I think it depends when you were to sit and hang with Jesus as to whether he would have been okay eating with you or whether he would have called you a dog and forced you to beg for crumbs (the subject of my Friday post, actually!) Thank you for being courageously honest and giving us some questions to think about, not answers. Terrific post! I echo your whole fearing Jesus wouldn't sit down and sup with a gentile. I think it depends when you were to sit and hang with Jesus as to whether he would have been okay eating with you or whether he would have called you a dog and forced you to beg for crumbs (the subject of my Friday post, actually!)

Thank you for being courageously honest and giving us some questions to think about, not answers.

]]> By: real live preacher http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-2671 real live preacher Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:50:06 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/#comment-2671 I'm a-scared of Jesus. The real one, the historical one. I'm pretty frightened that I might be one of the people whose ass he would promptly kick. Or maybe just stare at me and say, "Who are you? Go away. I never knew you." And I love Jesus. I'm trying to follow his Way. You're the first person I've heard to say this. Very nice and very insightful. I'm a-scared of Jesus. The real one, the historical one. I'm pretty frightened that I might be one of the people whose ass he would promptly kick. Or maybe just stare at me and say, "Who are you? Go away. I never knew you."

And I love Jesus. I'm trying to follow his Way.

You're the first person I've heard to say this. Very nice and very insightful.

]]> By: Ed G http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-2594 Ed G Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:38:06 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/#comment-2594 Well Julie, I hope you do get the chance to dine with Christ one day! As the song goes... i can only imagine... As for me, I always thought it would more fun to have dinner with John or James or Mary or one of the disciples... what was it like to be there when it was all unfolding. While I imaging that they all followed the law just as closely, I get the sense that we would have much more to talk about that we agreed on than not. Well Julie, I hope you do get the chance to dine with Christ one day! As the song goes… i can only imagine…

As for me, I always thought it would more fun to have dinner with John or James or Mary or one of the disciples… what was it like to be there when it was all unfolding. While I imaging that they all followed the law just as closely, I get the sense that we would have much more to talk about that we agreed on than not.

]]> By: Kristie B http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-2584 Kristie B Fri, 04 Apr 2008 03:18:52 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/#comment-2584 Julie, I really appreciate your post here. Do these icebreakers require that you sit down and have dinner with the person in his/her historical setting? Or can the historical figure show up in your contemporary setting? I've studied the historical Jesus (thank you, Tom Wright) so I completely understand how his very Jewish, male manifestation is off-putting - it is to me too. But if Jesus showed up in our time and culture...well, I can't help but think he would contextualize. I'm aware of the danger of creating Jesus in our own image, but in the same way he took on the particular culture of second-temple Judaism (working within it, but also critiquing it and turning it upside-down), I wonder if he wouldn't take on ours if he showed up here. Surely he would expose our idolatry and ignorance and hardness of heart, but it would make for an interesting conversation, wouldn't it? (Side note: I guess all this is me trying to reconcile the very particular historical Jesus with the Jesus who is the one true human and the representative of all people in all cultures in all times. How are we supposed to think about Christ being both particular and universal?) Julie, I really appreciate your post here. Do these icebreakers require that you sit down and have dinner with the person in his/her historical setting? Or can the historical figure show up in your contemporary setting? I've studied the historical Jesus (thank you, Tom Wright) so I completely understand how his very Jewish, male manifestation is off-putting – it is to me too. But if Jesus showed up in our time and culture…well, I can't help but think he would contextualize. I'm aware of the danger of creating Jesus in our own image, but in the same way he took on the particular culture of second-temple Judaism (working within it, but also critiquing it and turning it upside-down), I wonder if he wouldn't take on ours if he showed up here. Surely he would expose our idolatry and ignorance and hardness of heart, but it would make for an interesting conversation, wouldn't it? (Side note: I guess all this is me trying to reconcile the very particular historical Jesus with the Jesus who is the one true human and the representative of all people in all cultures in all times. How are we supposed to think about Christ being both particular and universal?)

]]> By: Mike Clawson http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-2583 Mike Clawson Wed, 02 Apr 2008 18:18:26 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/#comment-2583 Interesting question babe. I honestly don't think Jesus would have a hard time sitting down to eat with you, nor do I picture him being excessively legalistic. However, I doubt whether any of us would be able to handle how radical and revolutionary he was. He wouldn't just be a polite dinner guest. He was a peasant rabble rouser, a wild-eyed radical condemning the injustices and abuses of power in his day (and implicitly those in our own). I think most of us would end up being offended by him at some point in the course of the evening, as he directed his criticisms our own way as participants in the oppression and injustices present in our world. Interesting question babe. I honestly don't think Jesus would have a hard time sitting down to eat with you, nor do I picture him being excessively legalistic. However, I doubt whether any of us would be able to handle how radical and revolutionary he was. He wouldn't just be a polite dinner guest. He was a peasant rabble rouser, a wild-eyed radical condemning the injustices and abuses of power in his day (and implicitly those in our own). I think most of us would end up being offended by him at some point in the course of the evening, as he directed his criticisms our own way as participants in the oppression and injustices present in our world.

]]> By: Julie Clawson http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-2582 Julie Clawson Wed, 02 Apr 2008 18:00:05 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/#comment-2582 Thanks for the honest replies. I have to wonder if I can ever accept fully both Jesus as God and Jesus as man. I'm all good with the theology there, and I'm all good with judgment and calling, I just don't know if I can ever not let those things utterly trump the human aspects. Thanks for the honest replies. I have to wonder if I can ever accept fully both Jesus as God and Jesus as man. I'm all good with the theology there, and I'm all good with judgment and calling, I just don't know if I can ever not let those things utterly trump the human aspects.

]]> By: Minstrel Ayreon http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-2581 Minstrel Ayreon Wed, 02 Apr 2008 14:30:20 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/#comment-2581 I'm with Jeff on this one. Yes, there would be vast differences between us were I to meet with Jesus--yet I also have a strong belief that He is not arbitrary, that He is more capable than we are of seeing past such things as racial, cultural, and gender differences. Do I expect to be judged in His presence? Of course. The difference is that unlike dealing with an ordinary person, I would know that I was being judged on the <i>right</i> things, not on people's arbitrary prejudices. I would also find it reassuring to know that I am not dealing with two-facedness or smug arrogance: someone pretending kindness and "tolerance" (which usually just means "I will pretend to your face to like you and what you do, even though I think you're the slime beneath my shoes") to my face but inside harboring all manner of unkindnesses. Nor would I be dealing with someone who nitpicked or criticized in order to feel holier-than-thou, or for the sake of <i>destroying</i> another person. Do I expect that I would deserve some criticism? Yes...a lot of it. But given what I know about Him, I think I would trust His motivations much more than I would others. I think it would be a tough meal in terms of knowing I was being seen right down to the bottom of my soul. However, I do not see Him as the sort who would use His cultural differences with the intent of creating a barrier as I see so many people do these days. ("You're not [insert group here]--you'll never get it and you're not welcome to even learn...but don't you DARE offend ME or else!") Accommodation and learning go both ways. I do not doubt that He would do His part. I also don't think He would take it out on me that He created me to belong to a certain set of parents with a certain background, skin color, and the like. If there is anyone I should be uncomfortable with in that respect, it is <i>myself</i>. I really find myself wondering if I would do all that I ought to to make <i>Him</i> feel welcome and accepted, and in what ways <i>my</i> prejudices might expose themselves in front of Him. That's the scariest part to me: learning things about myself that I would prefer to remain ignorant of. I'm with Jeff on this one. Yes, there would be vast differences between us were I to meet with Jesus–yet I also have a strong belief that He is not arbitrary, that He is more capable than we are of seeing past such things as racial, cultural, and gender differences. Do I expect to be judged in His presence? Of course. The difference is that unlike dealing with an ordinary person, I would know that I was being judged on the right things, not on people's arbitrary prejudices. I would also find it reassuring to know that I am not dealing with two-facedness or smug arrogance: someone pretending kindness and "tolerance" (which usually just means "I will pretend to your face to like you and what you do, even though I think you're the slime beneath my shoes") to my face but inside harboring all manner of unkindnesses. Nor would I be dealing with someone who nitpicked or criticized in order to feel holier-than-thou, or for the sake of destroying another person. Do I expect that I would deserve some criticism? Yes…a lot of it. But given what I know about Him, I think I would trust His motivations much more than I would others.

I think it would be a tough meal in terms of knowing I was being seen right down to the bottom of my soul. However, I do not see Him as the sort who would use His cultural differences with the intent of creating a barrier as I see so many people do these days. ("You're not [insert group here]–you'll never get it and you're not welcome to even learn…but don't you DARE offend ME or else!") Accommodation and learning go both ways. I do not doubt that He would do His part. I also don't think He would take it out on me that He created me to belong to a certain set of parents with a certain background, skin color, and the like. If there is anyone I should be uncomfortable with in that respect, it is myself. I really find myself wondering if I would do all that I ought to to make Him feel welcome and accepted, and in what ways my prejudices might expose themselves in front of Him.

That's the scariest part to me: learning things about myself that I would prefer to remain ignorant of.

]]> By: J. K. Gayle http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-2580 J. K. Gayle Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:35:16 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/#comment-2580 >Julie, I can't stop thinking about your question, whether Jesus is likeable enough for my parties. (There's also that Isaiah forecast saying he just wouldn't be: "<i>The servant grew up before God—a scrawny seedling, a scrubby plant in a parched field. There was nothing attractive about him, nothing to cause us to take a second look. He was looked down on and passed over, a man who suffered, who knew pain firsthand. One look at him and people turned away. We looked down on him, thought he was scum.</i>") >Geoff, You're right. If he asks one of his best friends, S. Peter, whether he loves him to which he answers only at first "you're my friend," then what does he ask me, like you, "a relatively well paid, western, white man." (So I'm only getting some comfort here out of the next discomforting lines of Isaiah 53: "<i>But the fact is, it was our pains he carried— our disfigurements, all the things wrong with us. We thought he brought it on himself, that God was punishing him for his own failures. But it was our sins that did that to him, that ripped and tore and crushed him—our sins! He took the punishment, and that made us whole. Through his bruises we get healed. We're all like sheep who've wandered off and gotten lost. We've all done our own thing, gone our own way. And God has piled all our sins, everything we've done wrong, on him, on him</i>.") >Julie, I can't stop thinking about your question, whether Jesus is likeable enough for my parties. (There's also that Isaiah forecast saying he just wouldn't be:
"The servant grew up before God—a scrawny seedling,
a scrubby plant in a parched field.
There was nothing attractive about him,
nothing to cause us to take a second look.
He was looked down on and passed over,
a man who suffered, who knew pain firsthand.
One look at him and people turned away.
We looked down on him, thought he was scum.")

>Geoff, You're right. If he asks one of his best friends, S. Peter, whether he loves him to which he answers only at first "you're my friend," then what does he ask me, like you, "a relatively well paid, western, white man."

(So I'm only getting some comfort here out of the next discomforting lines of Isaiah 53:

"But the fact is, it was our pains he carried—
our disfigurements, all the things wrong with us.
We thought he brought it on himself,
that God was punishing him for his own failures.
But it was our sins that did that to him,
that ripped and tore and crushed him—our sins!
He took the punishment, and that made us whole.
Through his bruises we get healed.
We're all like sheep who've wandered off and gotten lost.
We've all done our own thing, gone our own way.
And God has piled all our sins, everything we've done wrong,
on him, on him.")

]]> By: Adam Copeland http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-2579 Adam Copeland Wed, 02 Apr 2008 08:35:34 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/#comment-2579 I used to say Hitler for those ice-breaker games, but after several experiences of really angering people and having to explain myself for a long time, I moved on. (I still think dinner with Hitler would be incredibly challenging and push one to new places, but anyways.) In some ways, I'd be afraid to have dinner with Jesus because of the way he sees right through you to the truth--what would he think about the justice shown by what we served and our house furnishings? Heck, today he'd probably be a vegetarian if not vegan. And he'd probably invite along some folks I generally look down on. I used to say Hitler for those ice-breaker games, but after several experiences of really angering people and having to explain myself for a long time, I moved on. (I still think dinner with Hitler would be incredibly challenging and push one to new places, but anyways.)

In some ways, I'd be afraid to have dinner with Jesus because of the way he sees right through you to the truth–what would he think about the justice shown by what we served and our house furnishings? Heck, today he'd probably be a vegetarian if not vegan. And he'd probably invite along some folks I generally look down on.

]]> By: Nathan http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-2577 Nathan Wed, 02 Apr 2008 04:08:22 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/04/01/do-i-like-jesus/#comment-2577 Courageous post! Anyone who burns you at the stake for being honest is afraid. Jesus is mos def resistible. "Sell all your things and give the money to the poor and follow me?" Pshhhh. We want to believe he's irresistible because it makes it easier to believe he's on our side. We all resist him, but he walks through walls and entreats us anyway: "Put your hands here in my side." I haven't lived up to him being irresistible, but I've heard he loves me anyway. Courageous post! Anyone who burns you at the stake for being honest is afraid.
Jesus is mos def resistible. "Sell all your things and give the money to the poor and follow me?" Pshhhh. We want to believe he's irresistible because it makes it easier to believe he's on our side. We all resist him, but he walks through walls and entreats us anyway: "Put your hands here in my side."
I haven't lived up to him being irresistible, but I've heard he loves me anyway.

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