Comments on: God and Gender http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/ incantations at the edge of uncertainty Mon, 21 May 2012 01:57:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Lori http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-2516 Lori Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:47:36 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/#comment-2516 Makeesha- totally agree. ;-) Makeesha- totally agree. ;-)

]]> By: Makeesha Fisher http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-2503 Makeesha Fisher Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:44:52 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/#comment-2503 Lori - i too refer to God as he, in fact, I refer to every element of the trinity as he - just because it's been ingrained that way in me for 30 years. in fact, I find myself getting a little uncomfortable when I hear the female pronoun used but not because I think it's wrong, just because it's unfamiliar. However, whenever we do little parables with our kids, the holy spirit is always a female. The theological truth is that god is neither and he is both. That doesn't negate the father metaphor, and obviously, it can't cause problems with the bride metaphor since men are also in the "bride" i just don't understand why this all is so threatening to people. It's really very much idolatry the way so many hold on to this male only image of the godhead Lori – i too refer to God as he, in fact, I refer to every element of the trinity as he – just because it's been ingrained that way in me for 30 years. in fact, I find myself getting a little uncomfortable when I hear the female pronoun used but not because I think it's wrong, just because it's unfamiliar. However, whenever we do little parables with our kids, the holy spirit is always a female.

The theological truth is that god is neither and he is both. That doesn't negate the father metaphor, and obviously, it can't cause problems with the bride metaphor since men are also in the "bride"

i just don't understand why this all is so threatening to people. It's really very much idolatry the way so many hold on to this male only image of the godhead

]]> By: Ian http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-2502 Ian Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:42:24 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/#comment-2502 Julie, I'm really sorry, I phrased that completely wrong. I meant that a man would have to be pretty emotionally and psychologically messed up to hate women. I didn't mean at all to say that there's anything wrong with you. Reading it again I realize how it does sound like that, but when I was writing it the 'you' was generic, as in, 'one would have to be...', but 'one' is kind of awkward to say, so I use a general 'you' a lot. I just meant that their narrowmindedness and insensitivity is wrong, but I don't think it amounts to misogynism; rather, it's defensiveness, pride and insecurity. And those are wrong and should be worked on, but it's not as ugly as misognysm, which I understand as more of a result of abnormal emotional and psychological instability. (Although, maybe the term is used both for a clinical kind of mysoginism and also extreme sexism, like the word 'depression' is used to actual, clincal depression as well as abnormal sadness/detachment.) Julie, I'm really sorry, I phrased that completely wrong. I meant that a man would have to be pretty emotionally and psychologically messed up to hate women. I didn't mean at all to say that there's anything wrong with you. Reading it again I realize how it does sound like that, but when I was writing it the 'you' was generic, as in, 'one would have to be…', but 'one' is kind of awkward to say, so I use a general 'you' a lot.

I just meant that their narrowmindedness and insensitivity is wrong, but I don't think it amounts to misogynism; rather, it's defensiveness, pride and insecurity. And those are wrong and should be worked on, but it's not as ugly as misognysm, which I understand as more of a result of abnormal emotional and psychological instability. (Although, maybe the term is used both for a clinical kind of mysoginism and also extreme sexism, like the word 'depression' is used to actual, clincal depression as well as abnormal sadness/detachment.)

]]> By: Lori http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-2491 Lori Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:09:48 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/#comment-2491 Are you serious, people acually say that God has a penis? I've never heard that. But if they believe that then they would have to believe he has a vagina and breasts too. The Bible says in Gen. 1:27 "So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them". If we are created in His image then there is a female image as well. I refer to God as Him, but not because I believe Him to be male. I think Makeesha is right, God is not bound by these distinctions. I'm still hung up on God has a penis!!! Are you serious, people acually say that God has a penis? I've never heard that. But if they believe that then they would have to believe he has a vagina and breasts too. The Bible says in Gen. 1:27 "So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them". If we are created in His image then there is a female image as well.
I refer to God as Him, but not because I believe Him to be male. I think Makeesha is right, God is not bound by these distinctions.
I'm still hung up on God has a penis!!!

]]> By: Julie Clawson http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-2474 Julie Clawson Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:12:19 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/#comment-2474 Ian - I'm not a fan of being told I am emotionally and psychologically messed up. when men are so consumed by the male ego that they reject the feminine or are scared by it, that amounts to a form of hatred in my book. They see women as so other and inferior that they cannot accept our humanity or our being created in the image of God. Pride in maleness that leads to a rejection of the female is an expression of hate. I understand insecurity and needing time to process, but such swift rejection of an idea because it is associated with the feminine goes deeper that just dealing with a new idea. There are serious issues with how these men view women when that is their first and primary reaction. Ian – I'm not a fan of being told I am emotionally and psychologically messed up. when men are so consumed by the male ego that they reject the feminine or are scared by it, that amounts to a form of hatred in my book. They see women as so other and inferior that they cannot accept our humanity or our being created in the image of God. Pride in maleness that leads to a rejection of the female is an expression of hate. I understand insecurity and needing time to process, but such swift rejection of an idea because it is associated with the feminine goes deeper that just dealing with a new idea. There are serious issues with how these men view women when that is their first and primary reaction.

]]> By: Ian http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-2473 Ian Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:38:05 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/#comment-2473 I only read through about half of the comments, but I don't think any of them really hate women -- you have to be pretty emotionally and psychologically messed up to make that leap -- but, as a man, I think it's more of a insecurity/pride/defensiveness issue, added onto trying to question preconceived notions. Conservatives are already defensive towards anything liberal or emerging, and then associating God with femininity can be threatening to male ego. I only read through about half of the comments, but I don't think any of them really hate women — you have to be pretty emotionally and psychologically messed up to make that leap — but, as a man, I think it's more of a insecurity/pride/defensiveness issue, added onto trying to question preconceived notions.

Conservatives are already defensive towards anything liberal or emerging, and then associating God with femininity can be threatening to male ego.

]]> By: Makeesha Fisher http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-2467 Makeesha Fisher Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:48:57 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/#comment-2467 I think the obsession with saying GOD IS MALE is bordering on heresy since as Paul mentioned, God is beyond/outside of those human distinctions. When you are so rigid about the maleness of God you imply that woman cannot be in God's image and therefore must just be in man's image (which is what many horrible patriarchalists teach) I think the obsession with saying GOD IS MALE is bordering on heresy since as Paul mentioned, God is beyond/outside of those human distinctions. When you are so rigid about the maleness of God you imply that woman cannot be in God's image and therefore must just be in man's image (which is what many horrible patriarchalists teach)

]]> By: Paul http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-2466 Paul Fri, 21 Mar 2008 18:50:29 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/#comment-2466 I've always felt that God must be beyond gender - to create us in his image, male and female, God must be more. So God is sexless, well apart from Jesus but i always kinda figured he was more about connecting/revealing humanity rather than representing one gender over another. I've always felt that God must be beyond gender – to create us in his image, male and female, God must be more.

So God is sexless, well apart from Jesus but i always kinda figured he was more about connecting/revealing humanity rather than representing one gender over another.

]]> By: Mike Clawson http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-2462 Mike Clawson Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:53:43 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/#comment-2462 Rebecca, I might agree with her that you don't want to "change" God's gender either, you just want to acknowledge what has <i>always</i> been true according to the Bible, i.e. that both male and female are created in God's image, and therefore God's own nature must necessarily contain and transcend both. Rebecca, I might agree with her that you don't want to "change" God's gender either, you just want to acknowledge what has always been true according to the Bible, i.e. that both male and female are created in God's image, and therefore God's own nature must necessarily contain and transcend both.

]]> By: Kristen http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-2461 Kristen Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:35:26 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/20/god-and-gender/#comment-2461 When I was growing up, in the '80s, our pastor usually used masculine pronouns for God, because that's what we're used to and anything else sounds jarring. But every now and again he'd throw in some female ones just to keep us thinking. So there's at least one man who's been aware of such things for a while now. That's always been my favorite approach. Keep us thinking, keep us aware that our language is limited and God is not. But let's not strip all masculine references everywhere. Sometimes reflecting on the mother love of God -- hooray! Always replacing "Father" with "Creator"? That's just no good at all. When I was growing up, in the '80s, our pastor usually used masculine pronouns for God, because that's what we're used to and anything else sounds jarring. But every now and again he'd throw in some female ones just to keep us thinking. So there's at least one man who's been aware of such things for a while now.

That's always been my favorite approach. Keep us thinking, keep us aware that our language is limited and God is not. But let's not strip all masculine references everywhere. Sometimes reflecting on the mother love of God — hooray! Always replacing "Father" with "Creator"? That's just no good at all.

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