God and Gender
A couple of days ago, Mark Oestreicher posted his thoughts on gender pronouns for God. He described his lengthy journey into understanding that solely using male pronouns limits God and alienates many women. It is an open an honest reflection on how seeking to understand God and scripture better brought him to a place of seeing how he needs to be careful about how he speaks of God. First, I want to thank Mark for being one of the first men I have encountered who not only thinks this way, but believes it is important enough to discuss. This is a huge issue for a lot of women and a significant issue regarding truth and idolatry (my thoughts on that here). I appreciate men being willing to acknowledge that and challenge taboos to actually discuss it.
But of course his post has stirred much controversy. There are those fearful that Youth Specialties will take a similar stance (to which my reply is – “what? actually be biblical?”). They claim that they (as youth pastors) would not be allowed to attend YS events if YS said that God isn’t strictly male. I personally find it depressing that a church would promote idolatry over unity or truth. Others there though claimed that if one doesn’t believe God is male then one therefore doesn’t believe the Bible is inerrant (which I think they are inappropriately using as a synonym for true). I was just fascinated by the whole thing. I’m used to this topic being taboo, I’m used to being told that it’s just easier to use male default language, I’m used to people being uncomfortable with including female metaphors in their God talk, but I haven’t heard such extreme “God has a penis” rhetoric in a long time. Do these people really think they are being biblical? (have they studied the Bible???) Do they just really hate women? Are they so narcissistic that God can only exist in their own image? I know those are harsh questions, but have they ever really thought about it?
I thought I’d ramble on here with my questions since I didn’t want to jump into the mess over there. I know this whole topic has been a journey for me, and I still often default to male pronouns for God. But I’m convinced that if I want to be respectful to God, this is an issue I can’t ignore. I don’t want to limit God by the smallness of my biases and God is constantly pushing me into a deeper relationship. I can’t go back now.
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julieclawson(at)gmail(dot)com 
Good post. Even better question! I would love to draw your attention to a similar post my friend had on this topic a while back. You can read my comment to her there. I just linked your post in her comment section!
http://whitehousetapestry.blogspot.com/2007/11/who-is-he-he-is-she.html
I will say that the male imagery of God is more prevalent, but what else would one expect from a patriarchal society. Jesus would not have connected his already radical teaching of God’s intimate love (LIKE a good father)AND at the same time pushed the boundaries by praying to mother God. Too much too soon I think.
But 2000+ years later and this riles people up, I’d say “not enough, and time has long past”!!! Men have control issues. I’m a man, I’ll say it. But you know, I actually relate more to the feminine aspects of God than I do the male. Jesus did speak about the more feminine aspects, but the Jewish understanding of God is all, male, female, and Asexual at the same time. There is sooo much we can learn about our father-God by examining our mother-God. As a male, I know there’s a lot it could teach me about the character and nature of God.
I read some of the responses, I shake my head. Ridiculous!!!! I don’t understand why someone SAYS they love God, but then doesn’t want to explore and embrace all aspects of that one they love. I say it’s because their love is superficial, but I can’t be the judge of that. People want God the way he/she’s always been, wrapped up nice and neat, able to be pulled out at a moment’s crisis. That, to me, is not the relationship we are called to have.
I think this feminist (don’t mean that term derogitory, just labeling it what it is) would (as you mentioned) not only forward out understanding and relationship with God, but also with each other. Women would naturally gain more respect by other Christians… dare I say, be treated as equals?? I’m with you…soo much good can come from people speaking like this, yet nothing but ridicule and disrespect arrive. They throw at us that when we say “the feminine God” that we are being heretical and unbiblical… irony says otherwise.
Thanks for posting this. It is a good conversation for the Christian community to be having! I tried not to repeat my other thoughts that I left on Mary’s blog that I linked to.
let me know what you think!!! I’ll check back.
peace and love,
justin
oh, and PS… you’re right, you can’t go back once the “scales have fallen from [our] eyes”.
My wife Amy and I are constantly talking through the gender of God issue. Amy did indeed grow up feeling somewhat disintegrated from the God because of the male-ness with which he is usually protrayed. We really enjoy ripping the false male-ness of God down from the mantelpiece of idolatry. It is really necessary, especially in the church circles that we grew up in.
Why should we possibly be offended by the idea that God can be woman and man in one? Why is the idea of a feminine God such a heresy but a masculine God is not? so odd. so odd.
This is a great post. Calling God a “male” or a “female” misses the larger point that many conservative evangelicals simply take for granted—the nature of God. As I’ve noted on my blog, there is a real lack of understanding about the person of the trinity, the nature of God, and a whole host of other things, that really only undermines our faith. What we should really be seeking after is “Who is God and how do I know him?” This was the question of great Catholic theologians like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas. The nature of God is not quite as simple as some people make it out to be.
The issue with gender and God is still very much alive and well. Affirming the “maleness” of God and even the Holy Spirit was a big issue when I attended seminary less than 10 years ago.
If we cannot refer to God in feminine terms it creates a legitimation crisis for women in ministry. It also perpetuates the stigma of women in leadership in general.
But this not only alienates women, it alienates a lot of young boys and girls whose father’s went away and never came back, who are in prison, who were shot, etc. They will go to church and hear about this idealized father God who sacrificed his son to save us. It’s neither a very comforting ideal for any son without a father to relate to nor is it in anyway nourishing to the experience of loss of fatherhood they have had.
Methinks they doth protest too much …
Yes. I don’t especially “need” for God to be more than male, and I’m not put off by the masculine references to God. However, the rigidity and unwillingness to consider God beyond a male-gendered identity was surprising and revealing to me.
Interestingly, the fact that Papa is a woman in the book The Shack is one of the most frequent complaints of people who can’t handle the book.
It seems many would rather hang onto an idolatrous image rather than push into a deeper understanding of God. I don’t know how much of it is intentionally gender-biased, but I think that having preconceived ideas challenged is extremely threatening to some people.
I loved Erin’s post this week about referring to God as them and they. Honestly, I think that is perhaps a more accurate expression as we develop a revelation of the triune nature of God.
Julie, maybe you and your readers can help me. I really love my aunt and she just recently responded by email to one of my blog posts in which I referred to God in feminine pronouns and among other really good things said, “Even having a father that was quite screwy I don’t have the desire to change God’s gender.” Where do I start a conversation with someone that I fought with in my adolescence about God but with whom I’ve come to a detente with because we’d rather enjoy each other than fight.
I feel a need to point out that I don’t have the power to change God’s gender. That I believe that saying God has a gender at all is like saying that God is brunette or white. Using feminine pronouns reminds me that I cannot actually comprehend the magnitude of God and so my descriptions are just a simplification anyway and therefore irrelevant in the larger scheme of things.
I’m afraid that even my logic that I seek humility because no one can actually be right about who God is will be rejected.
Is there an easy, non-combative sentence that I can insert into my reply that makes me feel better, possibly starts us down a path (that will take years, maybe decades to travel) and won’t make her go ape-shit at me?
From what I am seeing most people are more concerned about God being female (or at least representing feminine aspects) than about God being male. The first is labeled heresy the second orthodoxy. As I see it neither are strictly true and both are true in that God encompasses both.
Rebecca – In truth I believe this isn’t a battle to fight right away with everyone. Starting with the feminine names for God really freaks some people out. It may be easier to introduce people to the idea that all of our names and conceptions of God are metaphor. Refer to God as healer or rock – which don’t fully describe God, but are aspects of God nonetheless. Those ideas are easier to grasp first and help one people see that our conception of God needs to be much bigger (and far less limiting) than we typically assume. But that doesn’t help those of us who want to use female pronouns as part of our God talk. Why should we limit God and our worship of her just because some people are used to it? If we never do it how will they get used to it? Perhaps the simplest way to go is to just mention that the Bible and the early church fathers and mothers refer to God in feminine terms quite often. They don’t discard the male terms, just acknowledge a bigger God. It’s nothing new or radical or “feminist”, but an established part of theology that the modern church forgot about for awhile.
When I was growing up, in the ’80s, our pastor usually used masculine pronouns for God, because that’s what we’re used to and anything else sounds jarring. But every now and again he’d throw in some female ones just to keep us thinking. So there’s at least one man who’s been aware of such things for a while now.
That’s always been my favorite approach. Keep us thinking, keep us aware that our language is limited and God is not. But let’s not strip all masculine references everywhere. Sometimes reflecting on the mother love of God — hooray! Always replacing “Father” with “Creator”? That’s just no good at all.
Rebecca, I might agree with her that you don’t want to “change” God’s gender either, you just want to acknowledge what has always been true according to the Bible, i.e. that both male and female are created in God’s image, and therefore God’s own nature must necessarily contain and transcend both.
I’ve always felt that God must be beyond gender – to create us in his image, male and female, God must be more.
So God is sexless, well apart from Jesus but i always kinda figured he was more about connecting/revealing humanity rather than representing one gender over another.
I think the obsession with saying GOD IS MALE is bordering on heresy since as Paul mentioned, God is beyond/outside of those human distinctions. When you are so rigid about the maleness of God you imply that woman cannot be in God’s image and therefore must just be in man’s image (which is what many horrible patriarchalists teach)
I only read through about half of the comments, but I don’t think any of them really hate women — you have to be pretty emotionally and psychologically messed up to make that leap — but, as a man, I think it’s more of a insecurity/pride/defensiveness issue, added onto trying to question preconceived notions.
Conservatives are already defensive towards anything liberal or emerging, and then associating God with femininity can be threatening to male ego.
Ian – I’m not a fan of being told I am emotionally and psychologically messed up. when men are so consumed by the male ego that they reject the feminine or are scared by it, that amounts to a form of hatred in my book. They see women as so other and inferior that they cannot accept our humanity or our being created in the image of God. Pride in maleness that leads to a rejection of the female is an expression of hate. I understand insecurity and needing time to process, but such swift rejection of an idea because it is associated with the feminine goes deeper that just dealing with a new idea. There are serious issues with how these men view women when that is their first and primary reaction.
Are you serious, people acually say that God has a penis? I’ve never heard that. But if they believe that then they would have to believe he has a vagina and breasts too. The Bible says in Gen. 1:27 “So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them”. If we are created in His image then there is a female image as well.
I refer to God as Him, but not because I believe Him to be male. I think Makeesha is right, God is not bound by these distinctions.
I’m still hung up on God has a penis!!!
Julie, I’m really sorry, I phrased that completely wrong. I meant that a man would have to be pretty emotionally and psychologically messed up to hate women. I didn’t mean at all to say that there’s anything wrong with you. Reading it again I realize how it does sound like that, but when I was writing it the ‘you’ was generic, as in, ‘one would have to be…’, but ‘one’ is kind of awkward to say, so I use a general ‘you’ a lot.
I just meant that their narrowmindedness and insensitivity is wrong, but I don’t think it amounts to misogynism; rather, it’s defensiveness, pride and insecurity. And those are wrong and should be worked on, but it’s not as ugly as misognysm, which I understand as more of a result of abnormal emotional and psychological instability. (Although, maybe the term is used both for a clinical kind of mysoginism and also extreme sexism, like the word ‘depression’ is used to actual, clincal depression as well as abnormal sadness/detachment.)
Lori – i too refer to God as he, in fact, I refer to every element of the trinity as he – just because it’s been ingrained that way in me for 30 years. in fact, I find myself getting a little uncomfortable when I hear the female pronoun used but not because I think it’s wrong, just because it’s unfamiliar. However, whenever we do little parables with our kids, the holy spirit is always a female.
The theological truth is that god is neither and he is both. That doesn’t negate the father metaphor, and obviously, it can’t cause problems with the bride metaphor since men are also in the “bride”
i just don’t understand why this all is so threatening to people. It’s really very much idolatry the way so many hold on to this male only image of the godhead
Makeesha- totally agree.