Comments on: You Rebel Scum

By: Questioning of authority :: Epinoia Café

Questioning of authority :: Epinoia Café — Wed, 28 May 2008 01:15:17 +0000

[...] Clawson has some great thoughts on the tendency of some Christians to see any questioning of authority as [...]

By: Kimberly

Kimberly — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 16:03:32 +0000

thanks for making me feel not-so-crazy!

By: brad brisco

brad brisco — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 18:07:47 +0000

Julie, very good post and thanks for the link to “Adventures.” I see this issue often playing out in the area of church planting. More than once I have had the pastor of an existing church “forbid” someone planting another church in their town/community. This is especially true if it is someone from their congregation.

By: Julie Clawson

Julie Clawson — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 17:44:46 +0000

Wow that’s a disturbing story. I think don’t often stop to think about how their “we speak for God so we are right, obey us” attitudes really hurt their witness.

I too am attracted to unschooling mostly because I don’t see the point of sending my kid to school to spend the day following stupid rules and learning how to take tests. I think I would “undermine the teacher’s authority” far too often for anyone’s good.

By: Jewlsntexas

Jewlsntexas — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:23:56 +0000

This was an AMAZING post.
The authority issue is so convoluted. Let me chime in here about the first paragraph where you were talking about parenting and children. I am the mother of three children who are unschoolers. We are learning to live in a different way – with communication and freedom – and yet I still find myself sometimes reverting to the “because I said so” mindset that is so culturally ingrained. And yet, the control that people think they execute over others more often than not tends to drive the other person to rebellion.
For instance, the most controlling, overbearing mothers have the daughters who can’t wait to get to our house to get on myspace with my kids, listen to music that is outside of the “Christian” genre, hide Harry Potter books, put on tons of make-up and talk of nothing but boys. All of these are things their mothers forbid. I am thinking it is only a matter of time before they are not allowed at our house – but I do not ever give them the impression that our rules are the same as theirs.
I have seen this happen in churches as well. We moved to a small rural Texas town a year and a half ago – and the first “in your face” issue with the churches we visited was alcohol – the county we live in is dry – and the pastors want it to stay that way. I blogged about it – and from one person to another that pastor read my blog – and preached a sermon that he must’ve outlined point for point from my blog. He basically said at the end (I don’t know how we sat through it) that the issue was “not up for discussion” and that if you didn’t have a “zero tolerance policy” on alcohol – not to let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. We didn’t.
This kind of blind obedience to authority is destroying any possibility of the unbelieving world seeing Christians as intelligent, reasonable, thoughtful people. Faith is not blind – but it would sure seem that way.
Anyway – I could go on and on and on – I have thoughts about Corrie ten Boom –
and I LOVED the point about the Revolutionary War – which was rebellion to authority at its very core – people contradict themselves all the time.
Holy moly.

By: Brian

Brian — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:28:32 +0000

Julie,
Great post!

The question is where is the locus of authority in the gathered community? Not based in the “charismatic gifts” of a dominant personality. Not based in the authoritarian domination of individual personality.

What does mutual submission look like that truly uncovers the reality of Christ in our midst? The servant-leader who stoops to wash feet. The Lord of the Universe who forgives the ones who execute him on the cross.

What might this kind of authority look like? And to what community are we in submission?

Thanks for another great post!

By: Danni Moss

Danni Moss — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:25:45 +0000

LOL! From one rebel to another, you’re right on the money. Maybe if enough of us who have BTDT keep speaking out, more people will dare to ask questions – or at least know they are not lone aberrations. Great post!

By: Pistol Pete

Pistol Pete — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:31:25 +0000

No doubt you are seeing things from a different vantage point than I am. I certainly agree many kids are rushed way too much and that far too much is expected of them. This was a major reason my wife and I chose to home school.

Let me give you a prime example of what I’m saying. It happened just a couple months ago here on Long Island. A baseball coach takes one of his 10-year old players out of the game because he’s cursing and taunting the opposing players. The kid gets on his cell phone, calls his dad. Dad drives over with his brother and beats up the coach. Cops have to come to break it up.

That’s the sort of encouraged rebellion I mean.

By: Julie Clawson

Julie Clawson — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 01:06:10 +0000

Cindy – lol. honestly in that particular conversation I was told that preventing my husband from sacrificing his masculinity by engaging in women’s work was actually the most submissive thing I could do because it built him up as a man. I think I just ended that conversation with a “whatever floats your boat” sort of response and left. creepy.

Pete – maybe we do live on different planets or perhaps I don’t get what you are saying. Sure I see kids in open rebellion just for the sake of rebellion, but I see a lot less of that than I do of mindlessly imposed authority. Silly rules these days that kids must submit to or else are making it impossible for kids to be kids. Kids wake up to a hurried regimented morning routine before they are rushed out the door to catch a bus. Then then are denied any ability to be a kid as the busdriver then teacher yells at them to get their butt in gear and follow rule after stupid rule that generally have nothing to do with being a kid or getting an education. the face more of the same regiment of yelling and forced submission in every single afterschool program on the planet and then get labeled as rebellious when they want to play with a friend instead of do their homework. No they aren’t given the option to question any of this, but are merely punished and labeled if they don’t comply. This doesn’t teach respect for authority, it teaches survival until they no longer have to deal with it and can split. If kids were given the opportunity to be kids (without being punished for it because it annoys an authority figure) then perhaps things would be better. But as is, generally when I hear teachers bitching about the rebellious kids they have to deal with, I take the side of the kid just for the fact that they have to deal daily with such a horrible “authority” figure.

By: Dan K

Dan K — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:30:36 +0000

Great, great quote I found:

“To develop a broader vision we must be willing to forsake, to kill, our narrower vision. In the short run it is more comfortable not to do this – to stay where we are, to keep using the same microcosmic map, to avoid suffering the death of cherished notions. The road of spiritual growth, however, lies in the opposite direction. We begin by distrusting what we already believe, by actively seeking the threatening and unfamiliar, by deliberately challenging the validity of what we have previously been taught and hold dear. The path to holiness lies through questioning everything.”

Doesn’t get more “rebellious” than that.