Comments on: What to do with the Early Church http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/ incantations at the edge of uncertainty Mon, 21 May 2012 01:57:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Wednesday Roundup | the church geek http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1918 Wednesday Roundup | the church geek Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:06:43 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/#comment-1918 [...] The Book of Acts: Is it descriptive or prescriptive? Julie Clawson offers some insights in relation to Barna’s new book Pagan [...] [...] The Book of Acts: Is it descriptive or prescriptive? Julie Clawson offers some insights in relation to Barna's new book Pagan [...]

]]> By: Jeanette http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1893 Jeanette Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:30:24 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/#comment-1893 This is a great discussion! Frank is interacting with people about the book over at http://www.ptmin.org/pcobjections.htm the book is also on back order in many online stores, but it can be ordered for immediate shipment at http://www.paganchristianity.org This is a great discussion! Frank is interacting with people about the book over at http://www.ptmin.org/pcobjections.htm
the book is also on back order in many online stores, but it can be ordered for immediate shipment at http://www.paganchristianity.org

]]> By: Julie Clawson http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1889 Julie Clawson Sun, 13 Jan 2008 06:11:58 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/#comment-1889 Dan - thanks for the clarification. It has been interesting to read the variety of reviews and responses to the book. I'm gathering it brings up good points, but is written to extremely for the taste of some. Dan – thanks for the clarification. It has been interesting to read the variety of reviews and responses to the book. I'm gathering it brings up good points, but is written to extremely for the taste of some.

]]> By: Dan K http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1886 Dan K Sat, 12 Jan 2008 21:58:39 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/#comment-1886 The book is on its way to my door, but my understanding is that the point of the book is not at all prescriptive; it simply provides a rigorous description of the practices of the modern church which may have become idols. The whole point of the book is to spark discussions such as these as to the nature of church . From the chapter titles, it looks to me like Frank has hit on almost every problem I have with the current institutional church, and for that alone I'm grateful to know I'm not the only one. I agree with reading the ongoing discussions over at Kingdom Grace, as they provide a more informed perspective on the book. Please, though, hold criticism until you have read the book. The book is on its way to my door, but my understanding is that the point of the book is not at all prescriptive; it simply provides a rigorous description of the practices of the modern church which may have become idols. The whole point of the book is to spark discussions such as these as to the nature of church . From the chapter titles, it looks to me like Frank has hit on almost every problem I have with the current institutional church, and for that alone I'm grateful to know I'm not the only one.

I agree with reading the ongoing discussions over at Kingdom Grace, as they provide a more informed perspective on the book. Please, though, hold criticism until you have read the book.

]]> By: Paul http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1884 Paul Sat, 12 Jan 2008 19:59:54 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/#comment-1884 Thanks Julie, i have found that i can often get all nostalgic for the good ol days of the early church where everything was sweetness and light and then i read it again on a different day and see all the problems, arguements and debates and think it's pretty much same as it ever was. As I read it i'd agree with you, there are some parts of the story that are so chapter 9 but then there are also parts that resonate with chapter 20 - so if the early church is not a pancea or a problem, what is it? Thanks Julie, i have found that i can often get all nostalgic for the good ol days of the early church where everything was sweetness and light and then i read it again on a different day and see all the problems, arguements and debates and think it's pretty much same as it ever was.

As I read it i'd agree with you, there are some parts of the story that are so chapter 9 but then there are also parts that resonate with chapter 20 – so if the early church is not a pancea or a problem, what is it?

]]> By: Nicholas http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1881 Nicholas Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:03:02 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/#comment-1881 Julie - I agree apostolic doesn't ammount to much nowadays. What I liked most about this particular book is how it showed things that people generally say are 'prescribed biblical mandates', really aren't. Julie – I agree apostolic doesn't ammount to much nowadays. What I liked most about this particular book is how it showed things that people generally say are 'prescribed biblical mandates', really aren't.

]]> By: Julie Clawson http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1880 Julie Clawson Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:35:01 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/#comment-1880 Nicholas - Thanks for the thoughts. I fully agree that we need to understand the roots of our traditions. In fact I think understanding of those roots should be required of all Christians. I've talked with too many people who actually believe that practices and theologies from the 19th century reflect the early church practices. It's scary. But I'm also not one to place a ton of weight on that which is apostolic. To me it doesn't matter if a tradition isn't apostolic, it it serves God and his Kingdom then it is okay for the church to engage in. Just as long as that tradition doesn't become an idol or is assumed to be the prescribed Biblical mandate. Thom - Thanks for the mention of the Caputo book. I just got it for Christmas and am looking forward to reading it. Nicholas – Thanks for the thoughts. I fully agree that we need to understand the roots of our traditions. In fact I think understanding of those roots should be required of all Christians. I've talked with too many people who actually believe that practices and theologies from the 19th century reflect the early church practices. It's scary. But I'm also not one to place a ton of weight on that which is apostolic. To me it doesn't matter if a tradition isn't apostolic, it it serves God and his Kingdom then it is okay for the church to engage in. Just as long as that tradition doesn't become an idol or is assumed to be the prescribed Biblical mandate.

Thom – Thanks for the mention of the Caputo book. I just got it for Christmas and am looking forward to reading it.

]]> By: Doctrinal Precision : Aletheia http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1879 Doctrinal Precision : Aletheia Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:09:58 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/#comment-1879 [...] just finished reading a great post over at OneHandClapping that explores similar [...] [...] just finished reading a great post over at OneHandClapping that explores similar [...]

]]> By: josh http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1878 josh Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:02:14 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/#comment-1878 good thoughts. i haven't read the book yet so i should probably just hang tight. but to me scripture is too local, contextual, and evolving to be prescriptive. at least in acts. nick and i have a podcast with him and i plan on exploring this some. because i know this is pretty much the common criticism that is rising up out of the blogs. good thoughts. i haven't read the book yet so i should probably just hang tight. but to me scripture is too local, contextual, and evolving to be prescriptive. at least in acts. nick and i have a podcast with him and i plan on exploring this some. because i know this is pretty much the common criticism that is rising up out of the blogs.

]]> By: Thom http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1877 Thom Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:55:55 +0000 http://julieclawson.com/2008/01/10/what-to-do-with-the-early-church/#comment-1877 I agree that NT Wright's Shakespeare metaphor best works in how we view the church, as well as the Ancient-Future metaphor Robert Webber uses. John Caputo, in his book "What Would Jesus Deconstruct" (WWJD...hehe) argues that we should define the church as Plan B, the gradual work of God birthed in Christ's death and resurrection and continued until the kingdom of God comes to its fulfillment. In this way, and borrowing from McKnight, the Church is a conduit of atonement and kingdom-building until the true Kingdom comes in its glory. I agree that NT Wright's Shakespeare metaphor best works in how we view the church, as well as the Ancient-Future metaphor Robert Webber uses. John Caputo, in his book "What Would Jesus Deconstruct" (WWJD…hehe) argues that we should define the church as Plan B, the gradual work of God birthed in Christ's death and resurrection and continued until the kingdom of God comes to its fulfillment. In this way, and borrowing from McKnight, the Church is a conduit of atonement and kingdom-building until the true Kingdom comes in its glory.

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