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	<title>Comments on: Grid Blog for Int’l Women’s Day: issues with the issue</title>
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	<link>http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/</link>
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		<title>By: International Women&#8217;s Day &#171; Minnowspeaks Weblog</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-2283</link>
		<dc:creator>International Women&#8217;s Day &#171; Minnowspeaks Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] This is the third year in which I’ve participated in blogging projects related to this day. In 2006I participated in the Gridblog to Dismantle Patriarchy and in 2007the Blog Against Sexism. This year [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is the third year in which I’ve participated in blogging projects related to this day. In 2006I participated in the Gridblog to Dismantle Patriarchy and in 2007the Blog Against Sexism. This year [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Apr 2006 00:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/#comment-8</guid>
		<description>Hi Julie - I had not scrolled down to this thread.  I believe in total equality between men and women.  I would be delighted to have a woman President.  I would have no problem working for a woman.  I am involved with several religious communities - Quakers, where woman are as likely as men to be in any role - while at the same time there is absolutely no heirarcy within the Quakers - Presbyterians - where the church that I attend has a male minister - while the one a few miles away has a woman minister - who I also enjoy very much.  I sometimes attend a Unity Church where a lesbian woman is minsiter.  Before that there was a husband/wife ministry team.  I would guess there are more woman ministers than men ministers in the Unity or Church of Relgious Sciences Churches.  I also attend a very progressive Catholic Church where the Priest is obviously a male - but it is a laity driven Catholic Church where woman play a major role.  I was very dissappointed and surprised to here that you feel that women are brushed off in the &quot;Emergent Church&quot;  I don&#039;t really know Emergent Churches other than what I read on  the net/blogs - but it seems so incongruent (and dissappointing) to me if that is what is happening there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Julie &#8211; I had not scrolled down to this thread.  I believe in total equality between men and women.  I would be delighted to have a woman President.  I would have no problem working for a woman.  I am involved with several religious communities &#8211; Quakers, where woman are as likely as men to be in any role &#8211; while at the same time there is absolutely no heirarcy within the Quakers &#8211; Presbyterians &#8211; where the church that I attend has a male minister &#8211; while the one a few miles away has a woman minister &#8211; who I also enjoy very much.  I sometimes attend a Unity Church where a lesbian woman is minsiter.  Before that there was a husband/wife ministry team.  I would guess there are more woman ministers than men ministers in the Unity or Church of Relgious Sciences Churches.  I also attend a very progressive Catholic Church where the Priest is obviously a male &#8211; but it is a laity driven Catholic Church where woman play a major role.  I was very dissappointed and surprised to here that you feel that women are brushed off in the &#8220;Emergent Church&#8221;  I don&#8217;t really know Emergent Churches other than what I read on  the net/blogs &#8211; but it seems so incongruent (and dissappointing) to me if that is what is happening there.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/#comment-7</guid>
		<description>I remember having a conversation with my dad about gays in the military.  He&#039;s mildly conservative and a veteran of the front lines of Korea.  And he said, &quot;I guess gays in the military are like blacks in the military.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I do have a question about the nature of homosexuality and sinfulness, but I do not have a question about women and sinfulness (not being black and sinfulness).  I do have a question about the role of women in relationships (including ministry) and am concerned about what Scripture says about it.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If this is a stereotype that women are sinful and therefore do not belong in ministry, I agree we should blast that one to hell.  I&#039;ll load the gun.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In light of my being unsure about the exact nature of a woman&#039;s role, I try to land on the generous side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember having a conversation with my dad about gays in the military.  He&#8217;s mildly conservative and a veteran of the front lines of Korea.  And he said, &#8220;I guess gays in the military are like blacks in the military.&#8221;</p>
<p>I do have a question about the nature of homosexuality and sinfulness, but I do not have a question about women and sinfulness (not being black and sinfulness).  I do have a question about the role of women in relationships (including ministry) and am concerned about what Scripture says about it.</p>
<p>If this is a stereotype that women are sinful and therefore do not belong in ministry, I agree we should blast that one to hell.  I&#8217;ll load the gun.</p>
<p>In light of my being unsure about the exact nature of a woman&#8217;s role, I try to land on the generous side.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Clawson</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Clawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Mar 2006 03:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In regards to #2, I think Julie was referring to the way some people compare the women issue and the homosexuality issue. We have both encountered this in discussions. We will make the argument that women should be allowed in ministry if God calls them to it, and the response that we get back is &quot;Well, should homosexuals be allowed in ministry too if they think God is calling them?&quot; By making this analogy between the women issue and the homosexual issue the implication seems to be that since homosexuals shouldn&#039;t be allowed in ministry because they are &quot;sinners&quot;, that therefore women shouldn&#039;t be allowed  in ministry for the same reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In regards to #2, I think Julie was referring to the way some people compare the women issue and the homosexuality issue. We have both encountered this in discussions. We will make the argument that women should be allowed in ministry if God calls them to it, and the response that we get back is &#8220;Well, should homosexuals be allowed in ministry too if they think God is calling them?&#8221; By making this analogy between the women issue and the homosexual issue the implication seems to be that since homosexuals shouldn&#8217;t be allowed in ministry because they are &#8220;sinners&#8221;, that therefore women shouldn&#8217;t be allowed  in ministry for the same reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/#comment-5</guid>
		<description>Hi Julie.  I think this is a good list and we certainly have not arrived but my experience in these areas has at least given me hope.  Responding through your list:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;1. Lip-service -- The pastor at our other Church of God in Mattoon is a woman.  She is a tremendous preacher.  She has not gotten invited to speak much, but then again, neither have I.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;2. Being female is not a sin.  Help me out here (seriously).  Gender is not the same as race.  Men and women are different.  Blacks and whites are not different.  Rather than double standards, aren&#039;t there different ways of approaching men and women?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;3. The brush off.  I&#039;ll give you that one.  But I have been part of a church that purposely put women into leadership for the sake of having women leadership and it was not good because it wasn&#039;t done for the sake of leadership.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;4. Let&#039;s all get along.  You&#039;re probably right.  I don&#039;t like conflict.  I cringe at it.  I take it personally.  And sometimes it is good just to get it all out there.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;5. Separate but equal.  You&#039;re right.  That doesn&#039;t hold water.  That bubble needs burst.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;6. Ouch.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;7. The token woman.  At The Crossover, until recently, my two top leaders, members of the vision team, were women.  They weren&#039;t token.  They were the visionary leaders of the church.  They didn&#039;t act like men.  They acted like women and it was a real benefit to The Crossover.  And actually, in our church, it isn&#039;t token women I&#039;m looking for.  Sometimes I feel like I&#039;m looking for token men because the men are not stepping up to the major leadership roles, at least not the ones gifted for those roles.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Personally I am a fan of women.  Recently I stepped into a part-time position so that my wife could begin teaching full-time.  She is fantastic and gifted.  It felt like it was her time.  I sacrificed my career, my time, my freedom, in order to give her the opportunity to step up.  She has stepped up and I believe really grown from the opportunity and become much more the person God has created her to be.  There are times I fear that I will be seen as less of a man because she makes more money than I do, but that is sin, and I remind myself how great she is doing and how much fruit she is bearing.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This is a very real issue for me and I appreciate your voice on the issue.  I hope it helps someone have the opportunity to more fully become who God has created them to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Julie.  I think this is a good list and we certainly have not arrived but my experience in these areas has at least given me hope.  Responding through your list:</p>
<p>1. Lip-service &#8212; The pastor at our other Church of God in Mattoon is a woman.  She is a tremendous preacher.  She has not gotten invited to speak much, but then again, neither have I.</p>
<p>2. Being female is not a sin.  Help me out here (seriously).  Gender is not the same as race.  Men and women are different.  Blacks and whites are not different.  Rather than double standards, aren&#8217;t there different ways of approaching men and women?</p>
<p>3. The brush off.  I&#8217;ll give you that one.  But I have been part of a church that purposely put women into leadership for the sake of having women leadership and it was not good because it wasn&#8217;t done for the sake of leadership.</p>
<p>4. Let&#8217;s all get along.  You&#8217;re probably right.  I don&#8217;t like conflict.  I cringe at it.  I take it personally.  And sometimes it is good just to get it all out there.</p>
<p>5. Separate but equal.  You&#8217;re right.  That doesn&#8217;t hold water.  That bubble needs burst.</p>
<p>6. Ouch.</p>
<p>7. The token woman.  At The Crossover, until recently, my two top leaders, members of the vision team, were women.  They weren&#8217;t token.  They were the visionary leaders of the church.  They didn&#8217;t act like men.  They acted like women and it was a real benefit to The Crossover.  And actually, in our church, it isn&#8217;t token women I&#8217;m looking for.  Sometimes I feel like I&#8217;m looking for token men because the men are not stepping up to the major leadership roles, at least not the ones gifted for those roles.</p>
<p>Personally I am a fan of women.  Recently I stepped into a part-time position so that my wife could begin teaching full-time.  She is fantastic and gifted.  It felt like it was her time.  I sacrificed my career, my time, my freedom, in order to give her the opportunity to step up.  She has stepped up and I believe really grown from the opportunity and become much more the person God has created her to be.  There are times I fear that I will be seen as less of a man because she makes more money than I do, but that is sin, and I remind myself how great she is doing and how much fruit she is bearing.</p>
<p>This is a very real issue for me and I appreciate your voice on the issue.  I hope it helps someone have the opportunity to more fully become who God has created them to be.</p>
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		<title>By: B-W</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>B-W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 00:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for contributing, and for your kinds words about the top ten list.  As Nuno says, &#039;we still have a long way to go,&quot; even when patriarchy isn&#039;t as blatant as it once was (and in some cases, sadly, it most certainly still is....).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for contributing, and for your kinds words about the top ten list.  As Nuno says, &#8216;we still have a long way to go,&#8221; even when patriarchy isn&#8217;t as blatant as it once was (and in some cases, sadly, it most certainly still is&#8230;.).</p>
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		<title>By: anj</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>anj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Your list rings very true to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your list rings very true to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Nuno Barreto</title>
		<link>http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>Nuno Barreto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://julieclawson.com/2006/03/07/grid-blog-for-int%e2%80%99l-women%e2%80%99s-day-issues-with-the-issue/#comment-2</guid>
		<description>We still have a long way to go in this respect...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We still have a long way to go in this respect&#8230;</p>
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